Originally Posted by
Alknew182
Yes, but you will have a restriction on you ATP that reads:
Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO
Must have no more then half of 1200 as SIC, so the ones with 400 when they started will have that restriction.
To clarify, pilots with 400 TT when they started @ a 121 carrier won't be able to upgrade (you can't have that restriction on your ATP and operate a 121 aircraft as PIC) until they have 1200 TT, no more than 1/2 of which is SIC. If you have 400 TT now, you can still upgrade to the left seat, provided you have 250 PIC - you can get the rest of the time just sitting in the right seat of a regional.
Perhaps I misunderstood you when you said, "the ones with 400 when they started will have that restriction."? They are not destined to have it, which is how I read the statement. My apologies if I misinterpreted.
Originally Posted by
makeitra
Kind of confused as to what "Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO" means? Could you still be allowed to be PIC of a 121 airliner with this restriction? Y/N
No.
As far as “Accumulation of flight experience” to get an ATP (and use it as the PIC of a 121 aircraft), you need:
1) 1500 TT
a. if you are licensed as an FAA Commercial pilot, and acting as SIC on an aircraft that requires one by the aircraft’s AFM, aircraft type certificate, or on a FAR 121 or FAR 135 flight, or on a flight that requires an SIC – if you are doing any one of these, you can log the SIC time towards your 1500 TT. You can count all your 'student pilot' time for this one too.
2) @ least 1200 TT
a. for each hour of this 1200, you may substitute 2 hours of approved SIC. Approved SIC is the same as above, the stipulations for the 1500 TT.
3) 500 hours of XC (50 nm’s b/t t/o and landing)
4) 100 hours of night (A person who has performed at least 20 night takeoffs and landings to a full stop may substitute each additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hr. of night flight time, limited to not more than 25 hr. of night flight time.)
5) 75 hours instrument (actual or simulated), of which a max of 25 hours of which may be in a simulator or FTD
6) 250 hours of PIC (or as SIC “performing the duties and functions of a PIC”. If you do it this way, you have to do @ least 100 hours of XC and 25 hours of night as “SIC performing the duties and functions of a PIC”)
a. if you’re wondering what this “performing the duties and functions of a PIC”, think new line CA doing IOE. They are “performing the duties and functions of a PIC”, but the Check Airman sitting in the right seat is actually the PIC. If you’re just an FO, you’re not doing this. Essentially, you need 250 PIC.
So, what does this all really mean for a low-time FO? It takes about 250 hours minimum to get a CMEL-I, none of which is SIC usually (and not all of which is PIC!). So, say you have 250 PIC for simplicity.
The first big hang-up is the 1200 TT, with ½ your SIC time counting. So, to get the 1200 needed, you need an additional 1900 of SIC @ the regional’s (1200-250=950. 950 x 2 = 1900).
The other big hang-up is the 250 PIC. You can't count 'student pilot' time, which is the time you spent getting your private (the first PIC you can log is your Private Pilot Check-ride), and the time in a MEL you spent getting your MEL (your first hour of multi-PIC is likely your CMEL-I ride). Just go rent a 152 if you need extra PIC time . . . unless someone wants to tell me that SIC time in an RJ counts for this too - I am pretty sure it doesn't after throughly reading the FAR, which I quoted for reference. Anyone REALLY know for sure?
(Please don't post a theory - only correct me if you KNOW I'm wrong, and have proof, since I'm not a DE. Thanks).
It might help me understand better if someone could run and example of say a guy who was hired at a 121 airline with say 800 hours. How much more flight time (assuming the pilot is an SIC at a 121 airline) would this pilot need to be fully qualified to fly as PIC of a 121 airliner (ie fully qualified to have and unrestricted ATP)?
For our 800 TT pilot, assuming this pilot has the 250 PIC (and will have the 500 XC, 100 night, and 75 instrument requirements @ the time they go for upgrade, which I would think a regional FO could do - log all that instrument and night!), and now has roughly 475 SIC to go along with it (the 75 hours or so it takes when a pilot is getting their PPL (55 hours) and MEL (15 hours) isn't PIC or SIC either, it's 'student'.), he/she would need an additional 1425 of regional SIC before they could upgrade (1200-250=950. 950x2=1900. 1900–475=1425).
Oh, and finally: you have to know “Applicable Federal Aviation Regulations of this chapter that relate to airline transport pilot privileges, limitations, and flight operations” . . . in short,
you have to know how to read FAR’s. That one is 61.155(c)(1), though if you learned a thing by reading this, you should consider brushing up on FAR 61.159 too.
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Does anyone else think it ironic that the absolute legal minimums to get a pilot into the left seat of a 121 aircraft end up being discussed on a Colgan thread, given the Congressional scrutiny of regional pilot experience brought to light by two Colgan pilots (both of whom appear to have had the experience for an ATP)?