Originally Posted by
TonyWilliams
I was also fired from SkW. I'm confident that any union worth that title could have mitigated that in some way. However, the reality is that any pilot union, just like the current SAPA, would most likely be run by captains, who by a straw poll, support my firing (for failing upgrade training). Union or not, there wouldn't be a change here, either. FO's seem to see the policy differently, for obvious self-serving reasons ;-)
I can tell you where I work now, the union is about 50%-60% FO's and guys don't get fired for failing training. I know of a guy who failed upgrade twice and is back in the right seat
SkW is actively firing folks for failing recurrent training. Again, a good union should be able to argue training / downgrade / anything EXCEPT to be fired / PRIA / jobless. And a union with a little money can force the issue in arbitration / court.
Agreed, a good union will keep a guy in his seat.
SkW had fired another guy in the past two years, local to me in San Diego, during probation. Apparently another carrier's gate agent turned him in for getting into some kind of argument over the jumpseat. No union is going to save this guy either.
During probation there is less that can be done, but I would argue that the union that supports me would have keept this guy in his seat.
SkW fired another guy concurrent to my firing in August 2008 for failing FO IOE on the EMB-120 (also on probation). Seriously, what would any union be able to do there? The answer is nothing. Maybe offer the guy a counter job, or bag handling?
The answer isn't nothing. They could have given the guy more IOE. How long did SKYW give him? I've seen guys get 50-100 hours of OE before.
And this gets to a point I made earlier. Whether union or not, there won't be a significant change in firings. There should be, but I doubt there will be. Even the firings that should be won by a union might not be.
A union will offer lots of bravado, and at least a greater possibility that some jobs could be saved, or policies changed that make it easier to fire somebody.
I have to disagree with you in full force here. If you've worked for a union carrier and seen the guys that have had their jobs saved (and dare I say, some of them shouldn't be saved) your outlook would change dramatically.
It has occurred to me that if ALPA were genuinely concerned about a union at SkW (beyond "we get their dues"), they'd finance the start-up of an in-house union... with no strings attached.
I think this is a little bit crazy. Things would improve at SKYW with a union. I don't think we can expect ALPA to give the dues of other members to a non-union pilot group so they can start up a union that will presumably give nothing back. Also - ALPA national is just a support mechanism a union is only as good as your local representatives and volunteers. At the regional level you see the strongest unions where guys stick around for a while because they care enough to get involved.