Originally Posted by
slowplay
Whoa, there...where's the spite? Where have I told you that you're wrong?
Plenty of times. Many times thorough inference. Let say you don't that is good!
The world is changing, and you acknowledge that. We must either adapt to the real world circumstances or risk the Darwinian consequences of the failure to adapt. I posed some possible (even probable in some circles) scenarios to you. You answered with demands and wants. I asked you again how you get there from here. You respond
"The pilots of DAL want a win, and do not want to see more of their flying dolled out to other entities."
I want a win, too. I've asked for your suggestion on how we get there. You haven't given one other than throw our weight around. That we "deserve" something.
My suggestions are real simple. Give management bookends that we are willing to do. High and absolute mins that we will accept for this deal to be done. It is their bidding to do not ours. We cannot sit at the table and do this deal for them. What we can do is tell them that for a JV to look like A, we will be X, for it to look like B, we will need it to look like Y, for it to look like C, we will need it to look like Z. I am sure as the day is long that the set of circumstances are dynamic, and I agree that putting blanket demands on the talks and or deals would hinder. As I stated before, bookends (top and min acceptable outcomes) Adapting to the new world does not mean we need to see the farm. We have the coveted access to the board, and have a vote. DALPA knows exactly what is going on and with these bookends in place can help craft on the fly a very good outcome for the pilots. That is like you say DALPA's mission statement.
What I would suggest as a layman looking at the playing field is this. JAL, and the Japanese government are looking for a way to pull JAL and the Japanese government's money out of hot water. Suffice to say, if AMR was the answer it would have been done. My take away today is that both of those parties want the Skyteam alliance.
We are a huge party to making this happen. We have the ability to make the company offer their employees that will be out of work jobs, not just pilots but ramp workers, ticket agents, et al. We will also offer employment to their employees as we take over some of their shed routes. We off JAL to join the Skyteam immediately, and start interline ticketing up in 60 days or less. We offer their contract pilot preferential employment opportunities here at DAL, most are expats, we offer with the access of Haneda dropping out complaint of open skies. We offer money on a graduated scale to JAL's revenue stream. We offer preferred access for their customer to our lounges, and rewards programs. We as a company make the deal sweet enough that the company has a positive revenue stream with this deal. This deal has a lot of danger attached to it. JAL is sick, and a simple cash infusion is not the end all be all. There is some major viability for the Skyteam partners and us as pilots with going along with this deal. Log term it is good, sort term it could be ugly.
One last thing, we get right of first refusal on all of their gates, planes and routes.
While you may view it as a simple request, it doesn't have a simple answer. You know that. Tell me how the Japanese bilateral is going to turn out. Tell me about Haneda access. Tell me about JAL's future health and scope after their restructuring. Tell me about the Japanese and US economy next year. Tell me about the price of oil over the next 5 years.
Then I'll give you a simple answer.
There you go again. My simple answer is allow the company to obtain the deal as they choose, but with the understanding that we want like I said a min of a, b, c to allow this to happen. I also feel very strongly that for us to complete this JV it will be good for the company. Money wise it will be real good in a few years. I want some of that in my and your pocket. Give them the access they want, let it go 50-50 if it has to to appease the Japanese government, but make it known that we DALPA want paid directly to our pilots a percentage of the revenue/profit stream from the deal. That is our blood money for doing it. How much was AF again? How many billions? Even 10% of that is a ton of money for us. The neat part about that is that that deal is totally independent of the deal they do with JAL or the Japanese government. It is between our company and us.
That is a suggestion that allows the company to get their deal and for us to maintain our flying and get some positive return for our cooperation.
As for Haneda. I stated that one way or another we will have some access. The Japanese are hard bargainers and will eek everything they can from us. Showing that we have to have this no matter what, really shows our hand in the whole game. They want us, but to me it appears we may have given them the upper hand.
My input to the mec is simple. Do not create a deal that will have loopholes in it. Build upon the inclusiveness of the AF deal. Make the deal graduated that if they do A we get B, if C happens we get D. A blanket agreement generally only works for day 1.
Far from it. See above.
Please go back to the main point. What if those existing jobs are under threat from all the forces listed above. What if there was a way to preserve all those jobs? What if only some of those jobs are economically viable, a la Frankfurt? btw, I didn't talk to people about what happened there, I lived it.
Great, I am glad you did, and you should realize and agree that DAL mismanaged Frankfurt.
What jobs are you referring to? Our or JAL's?
I would like us to promote our jobs. If we can save their jobs that is great for unity. Make their pilots DAL pilots. How is that for unity!
Here's the MEC mission statement:
“To reverse the decline, stabilize and improve the pay, working conditions, retirement, benefits and job security of the Delta Pilots; to always be mindful of Safety and Security.”
Everything the MEC does is guided by that statement. Whether the Japanese bilateral stands as currently written, is traded away by our government for a false "open skies" or our competitors are allowed access to Haneda with their coalition partners while Delta is frozen out, you can expect the MEC to adapt as directed by their mission statement above. To quote another writer, it's real simple.
I am sure it is guided by that statement, but the simple fact is that this needs to be good for us. Not neutral. I understand the world is changing, and we are adapting. We are in a truly unique situation with JAL. It would be great if we could make it happen. I truly understand the importance of it. We need to be greedy to a point. I agree with that, but we need to make it benefit us. We can have both. For that I am sure.
I am sure that us bending over and giving the farm will not change the money side of it one way or another. Politically the jobs are important for the Japanese government, but they see green like everyone else. I would love to save those jobs, and make em DAL jobs. Take the people. This time lets not fire them like we did in FRA. (we still had to pay them, one point that many did not realize until after the fact)
Lets practice unity and make them us. As many of their employees as we can. Lets give the new Japanese government a political win in this down turn. In turn lets make this deal really good for DAL and its pilots.
I am not against you. I am against the idea of trying to manage expectations. That has got to stop.