Originally Posted by
Lowtimer77
I respect all of the replies thus far, but with all do respect to you older guys, from my knowledge you never had to deal with this kind of situation( regional pay equivalent to peanuts) when you started out. So how can you be bitter towards the younger crowd and tell us to learn self-respect and organize, etc? While in a way I definitely agree with those statements, that is DEFINITELY easier said than done. And for those who grew up with a background like mine which is basically "Work your ass off and show responsibility but dont make negative waves" it is very hard to almost seem "defiant" and complain about a salary, especially when although it is low, it is still higher than any job I will probably have had up to that point( possibly). What I am trying to say is that you grew up in a different time and I truly doubt that many of you would have "learned self-respect and organzied" to make change when you were in your early-mid twenties trying to make it at an airline.
Your comments are very valid...there are reasons for all of this heartache that are beyond your control. Some things to consider:
The way it used to be:
1) Entry-level pilots always got paid sh*t, and this has always been the expectation.
2) Hoping that entry-level 20-something pilots will function as a strong labor group is silly.
3) Entry-level pilots did not used to get blamed for industry woes.
4) Within a short period of time, bills, wife, kids, etc take the alure out of a job that pays $20K.
5) About the time that happened, you could get hired by a major and make real money.
What has changed:
1) Entry level-pilots used to fly small turbo-props. Now they fly small and medium turbojets which compete directly with mainline flying on mainline routes.
2) This puts a lot of pressure on mainline compensation, so if you do manage to get a major job, it's not going to pay the bills like it used to.
3) Even worse, this phenomenon is eliminating mainline jobs...which includes the job that YOU were hoping to get some day.
4) Management has continued to sucker in kids such as yourself using the old assumptions: low pay and fast upgrade to the majors.
5) Well, the fast progression to the majors is gone, but the low pay is still there! You ARE flying that major airline job today, but in a 90-seat RJ for $19/hr. (remember $19/hr really means about $6-9/hr since you only get paid for 30-50% of your duty time)
OK, so who's to blame?
1) ALPA National, for not having the vision to see the RJ thing coming. Their job is to take the long view; they should have scoped EVERYTHING above 50 seats (maybe 40 seats).
2) Various mainline pilot groups for giving up scope during BK. If they had held onto it, and got it under one roof, they could fix the payscale later.
3) Young pilots for not being informed. It's the information age for christ sake! Do some research, find out what you're getting into.
4) Some young pilots for being absolutely clueless morons. You DO NOT have an entitlement to your "dreams". Most of my friends from a small northern town high-school are still there in that small town. They had dreams, but they work in a mill, because that pays the bills. I reached a few of my dreams by being exceptionally motivated, talented, and lucky. I would never have pursued this career in the post-9/11 environment. Us older guys had dreams that involved large amounts of money (I enjoy flying)... The worst thing about kids with dreams, is that when they tire of their dreams and realize they can't do the low pay for 35 more years they are not going to stick around to fix the problem! They will leave, making room for another kid with dreams who will further undercut the industry.
What can we do about it?
1) Entry-level pilots are kind of stuck, but they can do these hings:
-Analyze the job market
-Look into corporate flying
-Compare flight instructing to regional pay & lifestyle
- Avoid the bottom-feeder regionals like the plague (you know who they are)
2) Mainline needs to agreessively regain scope wherever possible.
3) Educate new-comers so they don't enter the profession under foolish assumptions.
4) Include $$$$ in your dreams, then make it happen!
Hopefully the next market swing will stop the race...