Originally Posted by
Sink r8
Regardless, I've never quite understood how the Tokyo hub was going to be the future for U.S.-Asia travel, with the advent of small aircraft that can fly thinner routes, direct. I don't think passengers easily tolerate three-leg trips anymore. A business trip from a small city in the U.S. to a large Asian city would probably entail a US carrier, into a mega hub, to a 787 or 777, direct to destination.
Heyas Sink,
This is because nobody outside of NWA and a few airliners.net types understood that NRT is more than just a connection point for people going to/from Asia.
With 5th Freedom, NWA was able to solicit and carry Japanese O&D traffic, not just to the US, but to all points in Asia, just as if it was a native Japanese Flag carrier.
This is HUGE. This is something that no other airline (other than UAL, to a limited extent) could do. Did a majority of the traffic go US-Asia at some point? Sure, BUT, what it allowed NWA (and DAL) to do is to "top off" those flights with local traffic. Sure, a lot of it was comparatively low yeild, but it WAS yeild for a seat that would have otherwise gone out empty. Pure profit, in other words. Everybody is so darm US centric, they don't see the big picture.
Now as far as the 5th freedom rights mentioned here:
*
Removal of restrictions of 5th freedom rights beyond each country (but approval from 3rd country remains required)
That sounds like a
relaxation in 5th freedom restrictions,
NOT tightening them. And it states that approval from 3rd country is STILL required...if 5th freedoms are eliminated why state this? This makes it sound like 5th freedoms are still in place.
THAT could be why DAL isn't causing as much of a fuss as they might have...I mean, look at the NMB voting rules dust up, or heck, even the LGA deal ("write your congresscritter! your job is COUNTING on it! Here's a link! Do it NOW!"). When this issue came up in the 90's, NWA brought every trick and legislative effort they could muster, even to the point where non-NWA types noticed what was happening...we're talking full page ads in the Washington Post, every day, for months at a time.
40 slots a day, for the whole world at Haneda will dent NRT traffic, but I'm not guessing quite as much as the pundits might say.
Plus there is the whole slot issue. So what if it's open skies? If you don't have landing slots, it doesn't matter. Just like Heathrow. We can't even fill a DC-9 from ATL to Birmingham, and you're telling me you're going to fill a 787 from Nowheresan, Japan to East Butthole, Minnesota? Ain't going to happen. Traffic flows the way it flows for a reason.
Do we need a partner in Asia? It might help, but I'm not seeing this as the epic fail some are seeing.
Nu