Originally Posted by
Hot Rod Wannabe
Think about the A/C as well. The profile was being followed, but loss of sit awarness was key. Everyone is going to slam the pilots, and some blame is deserved. But don't forget the environment as well. Severe Icing forecast and SLD was present. The co-pilot was jabbering like a monkey about the ice build up. If the had all ice protection on and they were still picking up ice, then it was SLD period. In any event it should have been, "get the heck" out of there. The captian didn't notice that the A/C slowed because the auto pilot had trimmed the airplane tail to a maximum nose up position and when the pilots received the shaker the capt slammed the throttles forward producing a 20 degree nose up... remember the auto pilot trimmed max nose up based on power settings. Then the airplaned stalled probably tucked a wing due to ice again and well the rest we know. It is easy to second guess but situationally the crew was way behind and it bit them. I'm sure the new legislation will all make us safer in the end. I'm sure 1500 hours will make all pilots bullet proof and able to save all passengers from terrible accidents from ever happening. I wonder why ALPA signed off on the new HR 3371 so fast?
I guess some people haven't seen this NTSB animation:
YouTube - Colgan Flight 3407 NTSB Animation of Buffalo Accident Q400
You'll notice the throttles stay near idle until the airplane is at the edge of a stall, then he jams the throttles while applying back pressure, meanwhile someone retracts the flaps. I used to teach CFI candidates, so I did spin training nearly every day in a fleet of fairly spin resistant airplanes. We had one airframe that was so resistant, that in order to make it go over, we had to jam the throttle and apply extra back pressure right at the edge of a stall, quite similar to what this crew did at glideslope intercept!
You had to include a sarcastic remark about 1500 hours in your post, and on other threads people are questioning the quality of a CFI who's been saying "right rudder" for 1500 hours. No one should doubt that a good instructor should develop an understanding of basic airmanship, which was central to this accident. There are no shortcuts to competency, and you certainly can't buy it.
I've flown with quite a few low time pilots in 20 series Learjets, and a firm grasp of the fundamentals, even if learned while correcting students' mistakes, separates the people who are trainable from the people who'll never be more than gear monkeys.