Originally Posted by dojetdriver

And we can fly off on an ubber tangent here.

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck

Sure fatigue would be an issue but there's different types of fatigue. There's the kind that's your own fault and the kind that's related to bad scheduling and work rules. What you listed has nothing to do with the later. Fatigue due to someone's own personal choices is still pilot error. IE Colgan in Buffalo. Capt. sleeping in the crew room prior with little sleep and the FO taking a redeye from Seattle to EWR. Were they fatigued? Yes. Was it because of schedules, weather, work rules, or Fed regulations? No.

I guess any accident could be associated with fatigue from a certain point of view if you squint hard enough. Why were they fatigued is the issue. At some point you have to prioritize and take the responsibility to make sure you show up ready to do your job. The early flights, babies in the night, etc. are part of your personal life and need to be dealt with so they don't put you and your pax in danger.

The focus of the fatigue issues need to be about things the company and FAA have control over. Not the things they don't(our personal time). Keep yelling fatigue where it turns up being because of bad decisions prior to even starting the trip and there's no telling what direction congress could take to curb that. It's completely counter productive to the main issues being targeted (work rules, duty days, sit times, rest requirements etc).

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck

First day of a trip the fatigue card is a little hard to play.

Originally Posted by dojetdriver

Depends on the circumstance. If the day 1 show was 5am, and with delays, little if any meal breaks, and the day being extended to 14-16 hours, would fatigue NOT play a role?