Originally Posted by
Pineapple Guy
I agree that our pay sucks. But how do you define "bankruptcy wages" considering our top pay exceeds that of EVERY network carrier?
DAL- $209
AMR - $205
CAL - $193
UAL - $190
AAA - $160
Those are our peers. And two of them never even went bankrupt. So, if our "bankruptcy wages" put us at the top of the pile, I say LET'S DO IT AGAIN!
BTW, I agree 100% with Dragon when he said, "
Of course, based on the SWA and AA contract negotiations which dragged on forever, I am not holding my breath for anything remotely resembling C2K. Until we can get out from the RLA, labor doesn't have any recourse but to accept what Management wants to offer us." THAT'S where the real problem lies -- its not with ALPA, Lee Moak, or the elected reps.
Dude, if you are working for MY union I want you to step into my office, because your freakin' fired.
I'll just start with AMR as an example.
Your single data point BS is not a valid argument on why we are screwed in asking for bumps in payscale.
AMR not only has higher 12yr f/o pay on a few pieces of equipment (which by my book and what they tried to teach me in business school actually means MORE to us as pilots because of the Net Present Value of money earned today and not in 20-25 years when I can hold Intl widebody capt).
Additionally, with work rules and other compensations taken into account, AMR's way ahead of us at the 'World's Biggest Airline'. They continue to have an A and B fund and 401K's (non-matching).
Oh, and they have a 73hr reserve guarantee. And I'm pretty sure their sick policy isn't as poorly conceived and executed as ours is at the moment (just an aside).
I do realize what you are trying to say. But as I stated about 1000 posts ago, we have to stop playing the role of victims. We have the ability as the World's largest pilot group to change the way we do business in negotiations for pay/compensation and work rules. And as you well know, all three of those are really the same thing because that is how the company looks at it...one set of labor costs. We need to focus as a group on our TOTAL compensation package, from lifetime potential earnings to sick leave rules to 401k contributions and reserve work rules. It all counts and it all matters.
SWAPA some time ago figured this out, and the fact that if the pay and premium pays offered allowed the airline to be more efficient and their pilot group to benefit financially from working harder...that was a good thing.
DALPA needs to continue to leverage the fact that we assisted the company in executing the smoothest and largest airline merger in the history of the world. If we can't take this opportunity as a group and execute a respectable contract the industry can look up to in every way, then the profession truly is lost.
I disagree on the negotiation piece. Our mgmt team are savvy negotiators. They realize that with the relative compliance of this group (historically), that the sooner they can negotiate and close in an average economy rather than in a booming economy (2012 and beyond more than likely)...the better off they will be.
Now back to the JAL drama, or lack thereof.