I usually appreciate what you say ACL, but if these prognistications come to fruition.. ANY of them, we will never get a raise, so let's just disband the "union" and go to a Jetblue style relationship with management. Can't strike... can't get any meaningful improvements because of management mistakes and blunders from the past yada yada yada. The thing that I find somewhat amusing as of late is the eerily similarity to our current situation and the obama stimulus plan. Example: we are offering JAl somewhere north of a lot of money (while still operating in the red ourselves). JAL now says thanks but no thanks. So... instead of plowing that money back into OUR company where it belongs... we are still too poor to do that.. Where does it go? Now.. there are no raises.. minimal improvements.. same ol same ol. Tell me this Nostradomus... will this cycle ever end? I think not. I think I have said this before, but I found an old alpa rag from 1991, and the title on it was "Restoring the Profession" talk amongst yourselves...