Originally Posted by
80ktsClamp
Let's get the facts straight here: the 767 on the taxiway had quite the string of problems and a pretty bad case of fatigue before putting it on the taxiway. There had been numerous other attempts to land on the taxiway under those lighting conditions and sidestep conditions, so obviously there were more factors at play. It absolutely doesn't excuse them, but there needs to be an understanding of what happened. There was a major reason they were allowed to keep their jobs. Tower noticed them about to touchdown on the taxiway and let them land there after scanning and checking for anyone on the taxiway. That alone is a bit scary.... anyhoo....
Now then, this PSA crew displayed a significant lack of procedural maturity. There is some understandable shock involved in the post wreck stuff, but leading up to that point, come on! Just on the takeoff roll: 1. moving the flaps on the takeoff roll after realizing there is an error. 2. not understanding that when you take the flaps inbetween settings the config alarm is going to go off. 3. going against the hundreds of lives already lost in high speed aborts and aborting WELL above V1.
I've tried to stay out of this whole regional vs mainline thing, but I can't stay out any longer. This is retarded... If us regional folk are so bad then why don't you mainline types go ahead a grow a sack and scope in all of the RJ's so they are flown by mainline pilots?? Problem solved right...
I've only flow into ATL a handful of times since its an "outstation" at my company and we haven't even had service there for the past few years so I will be the first to admit that I really don't know what I'm talking about the ATL airport, but COME ON if it is a known fact that during certain lighting conditions on normal days planes have tried to land on this taxiway during a sidestep then why would someone with an EMERGENCY even consider doing a sidestep with those conditions...even this dumb RJ guy can see thats a bad idea. Fact of the matter is no matter what you are flying the FIRST thing you need to do is FLY THE PLANE. If you have an emergency then every attempt must be made to try to make the flight as "routine" as possible so once again how is accepting a sidestep that is known for tricking guys into lining up with a taxiway a good idea?? Those guys just got lucky that no one else was on that taxi way and that their mistake didn't end up resulting with a giant fireball with a major body count.
Now to the PSA guys. They were dumb. Were they dumb for setting the wrong flaps...not really since that can happen and if dealt with correctly is usually very benign. Now changing the config on the roll and aborting above V1 very stupid and usually deadly. This crew also got very lucky that this mistake didn't end up with a fireball and a "regional" body count.
It was brought up that many factors went into the ATL thing, but do we know what was up with the PSA crew in CRW? What day of the trip was it, what leg where they on, how long were their overnights the past few nights, were they having issues at home, etc? Just because this happend on a takeoff roll doesn't mean that the crew didn't have some of the same issues that the ATL crew had at the end of their flight.
Some people will bring up that fact that more RJ's have been crashing lately compaired to mainline planes. Lets look at some facts here. Domestically RJ's make up approx 50% of the flights if not more. RJ's typically do more legs per day and therefore spend more time in the "dangerous" regimes of flight (t/o and landing) Statistics alone are already stacked up against RJ's. So realisitcally the fact that more RJ's have crashed recently doesn't really mean too much.
Lets look at these two incidents. They both were lead down the path to where mistakes were made. Both mistakes were serious enough that in the past they have caused deaths. Both crews got LUCKY that they didn't kill people. Both crews had only 1 thing that saved them...ATL had an empty taxiway, if anyone would have been on that taxiway people would have died. CRW had the EMAS if there was no EMAS they would have gone off a cliff and people would have died.
We all need to remember that no matter what we fly our job is to get the plane where it needs to go without killing people. This whole regional vs mainline pilot thing needs to stop...it seems like its coming down from the mainline guys which doesn't make sense to me because you guys had to start somewhere and you guys were the whole reason that this whole RJ mess started in the first place, but there is a whole other thread needed for that.