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Old 04-11-2010 | 07:01 AM
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Waves
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Joined: Mar 2010
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From: SLC 767ER Captain
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Originally Posted by keenster
Waves,
It is hard for you to realize the losses of the N side because you have not experienced any of the losses that we did with our contract going away. Some things are QOL items that are difficult to put a dollar value on. Did we get a pay raise?? Yes, if you look only at hourly rates. That is very simple. But lets look at W-2s

2008 w-2 :$134,741.06 days worked 99 total 1361$/day
2009 w-2 :$133,934.12 days worked 134 total 1000$/day
2010 w-2 :$140,125.00 days worked 132 total 1061$/day base on avg
for 01/02
So on w-2s alone I made less in 09(DALrates) than in 08(NWA rates) with the huge huge huge pay raise that I got. In the SLI postings we were told time and time again about our huge pay raises that we were getting(go check them out on the old merger page). I said that the numbers did not show that and was told I was totally wrong. And how about that $PER DAY FIGURE
That equates to huge quality of life losses. Lost 2000 hours of sick pay: approx $270,000.00 for me. I was planning on bailing out early but lost medical coverage for early goers so I gotta stick around now. And I can keep going on things that were lost. I am grateful for the raises in pay that were achieved, but had you not got them where would we have been??? Pretty much they just kept us even with where we were. I hope this puts this issue to bed and I for one am sick and tired of it. The above numbers are facts and I got paperwork to back them up. I flew the same time pretty much every month approx 76-77 hours on average. So while it is so easy for you to make your statements where are your facts? So when you tell me that I got a huge pay raise, and I look at the above numbers, it kinda really ticks me off. If that's your goal keep it up you are doing a fine job.

And for the really big one, I would have finished up as capt on the 330 with the last couple years on the 747. It will take a small miracle for me just to get on the 330 after SLI, and I sure did not want to do it on reserve. The only hope is that we grow and expand??????

So, there is a perspective from a N-guy. Most of us are not really happy about this merger. Has nothing to do with N vs S guys on a personal level. I tell my self "that's life" and try to get on with things and hope for the best. I can't speak for the rest of the guys on their w-2s those are just mine. It seems as though you think this merger was a bed of roses for us, but for us there are lots of thorns in that bed. Maybe now you understand us a little more.

P.S. THis post is to be considered informative only and is not meant to further this argument. I would like to put this dog(huge pay raise) to bed and let it lie. You never wake an old dog asleep on the porch. I am done with it.
First, I’d like to preface this with: No, I’m truly not trying to aggravate you or anyone else here. That is not my mission. Secondly, I AM listening and my view points are NOT in concrete. I will concede a point when I am wrong, which is about 80% of the time. Ha Thirdly, even with your informative post, I still don’t understand, but I would like to. So let’s continue like adults not pilots, hee hee, and let’s not put this to bed until I figure out what the heck you guys are talking about. Fair? And since I haven’t figured out how to do those boxed quote replies, I must do it with red ink. Sorry.[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Waves,
It is hard for you to realize the losses of the N side because you have not experienced any of the losses that we did with our contract going away. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']True, I still don’t truly understand. [/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Some things are QOL items that are difficult to put a dollar value on. Did we get a pay raise?? Yes, if you look only at hourly rates. That is very simple. But lets look at W-2s

2008 w-2 :$134,741.06 days worked 99 total 1361$/day
2009 w-2 :$133,934.12 days worked 134 total 1000$/day
2010 w-2 :$140,125.00 days worked 132 total 1061$/day base on avg
for 01/02
So on w-2s alone I made less in 09(DALrates) than in 08(NWA rates) with the huge huge huge pay raise that I got. In the SLI postings we were told time and time again about our huge pay raises that we were getting(go check them out on the old merger page). I said that the numbers did not show that and was told I was totally wrong. And how about that $PER DAY FIGURE [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I guess I still don’t understand this one either. If you work the same amount of hours at a higher rate, how is it you make less money? Keep in mind that ALL airlines have reduced capacity and hours flown. So hours flown at NWA’s would most likely have been less as well.[/FONT]
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That equates to huge quality of life losses. Lost 2000 hours of sick pay: approx $270,000.00 for me. [/FONT]
As I said before, I concede on this issue.[/FONT]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I was planning on bailing out early but lost medical coverage for early goers so I gotta stick around now. And I can keep going on things that were lost. I am grateful for the raises in pay that were achieved, but had you not got them where would we have been??? Pretty much they just kept us even with where we were. I hope this puts this issue to bed and I for one am sick and tired of it. The above numbers are facts and I got paperwork to back them up. I flew the same time pretty much every month approx 76-77 hours on average. So while it is so easy for you to make your statements where are your facts? So when you tell me that I got a huge pay raise, and I look at the above numbers, it kinda really ticks me off. If that's your goal keep it up you are doing a fine job. [/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Again, truly I don’t mean to tick you off. I just don’t get it YET. I will say that your 76-77 average per month strengthens the mediators position that your 1.5X over 80 hours was only a tiny fraction of what was flown; however, I’m thinking a lot about that system and could be easily convinced of its merit, especially if it were based on 78 hours instead of 80.
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And for the really big one, I would have finished up as capt on the 330 with the last couple years on the 747. It will take a small miracle for me just to get on the 330 after SLI, and I sure did not want to do it on reserve. The only hope is that we grow and expand?????? [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Yeah, I want to fly it too, but I’ll never see it either. Of course that is not your point.[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Remember, the merger created a seniority list of jobs brought to the table. Those jobs were also based on 18 787’s which we may never see and NWA’s may never have seen. Instead, our 777’s are still rolling in. It ain’t no 747, but if you would have been a 747 Captain, you should at least be able to fly the 777, which incidentally pays the same. That’s a pretty good consolation I would say. I don’t know why the merger lowered your expectations. When I crunched the numbers, I came out in nearly the EXACT same percentile, as did all my friends. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Which means, I didn’t move at all, and you shouldn’t have either. [/FONT]So it sounds to me like a self induced pity party. Ha
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So, there is a perspective from a N-guy. Most of us are not really happy about this merger. Has nothing to do with N vs S guys on a personal level. I tell my self "that's life" and try to get on with things and hope for the best. I can't speak for the rest of the guys on their w-2s those are just mine. It seems as though you think this merger was a bed of roses for us, but for us there are lots of thorns in that bed. Maybe now you understand us a little more. [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Hold on their Hoss. I never expressed that this was a bed of roses. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I have stated several times that I have sympathy for all the life altering difficult changes DAL N has and is going through. Please don’t toss that grenade this way, cause I’ll hand it right back. Ha
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P.S. THis post is to be considered informative only and is not meant to further this argument. I would like to put this dog(huge pay raise) to bed and let it lie. You never wake an old dog asleep on the porch. I am done with it. Please don’t be done with it until I figure this thing out.[/FONT]
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