Originally Posted by alfaromeo

At least you agree that there will be a finite cap to the value of the contract. Look up finite in the dictionary because I don't think you understand the meaning of the word. Finite does not mean small and it does not mean what we have now.

Look, Capn, I will guarantee you that I have spent thousands (yes thousands) of hours more than you sitting in a strike center trying to help rally the leverage of the power of the pilot group to make the pie bigger. I don't really need any lectures from you about toughness or pushing management. Been there, done that, got the coffee mug to prove it.

If we are going to achieve our goals, the pilots need to understand the process as well as possible so we can work in a systematic fashion to achieve our goals. One part of that process is establishing a priority system for setting those goals. If you agree that a billion dollars per hour pay rate for a whale is probably not going to fly, and if you agree that minimum wage is not going to fly, then you have to decide on a figure somewhere between those two. How do you arrive at that number? How does the size of that number affect gains in other parts of the contract? What if pilots decide they want to transform our reserve system to a truly commutable system? What are the costs, how will those costs affect our ability to achieve our other goals? I am not trying to define down expectations, I am trying to help pilots that haven't seen this process before understand it so they can better direct their reps to represent their interests. I am trying to keep my personal feelings out of this because yours and every other pilots will be different than mine. I don't say I don't want to change reserve, I just want people to understand the effects if they do.

We all get a big laugh out of Billy Connolly's comedy piece where he says "I want it all, I want it now, I want it yesterday, and all my demands will be changed tomorrow so you better pay %^&**#$ attention." That is not a viable negotiating strategy. That is the strategy being used by the APA now and they are parked by the NMB in the penalty box. They have set high goals and had a lot of fiery rhetoric but so far they have delivered not a penny for their pilots. Perhaps you prefer to set unreachable goals and never achieve them, I prefer to get paid more money, even if it doesn't meet my lofty aspirations. My mortgage company doesn't accept aspirations.

Your argument that they can just sell their tickets for a few dollars more and pay whatever we demand shows you just aren't thinking seriously about this. The executives all have lofty bonus plans set on the profitability of the company, if they can charge a few more dollars per ticket, then why aren't they doing it now, that way they can pocket all that money for themselves.

What we do want to do is to help the industry pattern bargain their way forward. As the costs rise across the industry, then every airline needs to raise their prices and there will be no cost disadvantage for anyone. Unfortunately, right now we have Southwest with a decent contract and we have Continental with a real shot at improving their contract. Until the APA sets some more realistic goals, they will achieve nothing. The Airways pilots will not achieve anything in the near future and United has little hope in the near future absent consolidation. If you don't think the market matters, why don't you talk to someone trying to sell their house right now in Miami or Phoenix. The market matters despite your manliness.

Pontificate all you want. Your type of rhetoric will do nothing to move the ball forward. You might feel better about yourself but you will accomplish nothing.