Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I'd say this, we haven't begun to fight, yet. We're just batting stuff around and guys here aren't myopic so the discussion is attempting to take everything into account. But sure there are some kool-aide drinkers, more below.



If this was purely political then what would it look like if we played this like a demagogue politician would and write a bill so that on Sunday morning appearance on Meet the DePressed you can weild a magic trick.

Now watch the left hand...
DALPA: American Airlines pilot union negotiated a pay raise for their largest jet Captains of 20% greater than our current pay for the same aircraft. We are simply here today asking for our pay to be approximately 5% less than that.

Pilot Hating Reporter: So you're not asking to be the highest paid airline pilots?

Still watching the left hand? Good, keep watching it and dodge any questions about what the right hand is doing.
DALPA: No, not at all. We are asking for a pay raise we believe is to the betterment of our passengers, people who we don't even know but we owe our very existence too, our company and our shareholders, whom we love so very much. We're not greedy at all, we just ask that instead of demanding large amount of money for our pilots that we give the best pilots in the world stronger job security. Job security that will help ensure that when you buy a ticket on a Delta jet, its a Delta pilot, who loves you so very much, at the helm.

Okay, while everyone is watching the left hand someone knows the right hand is up to something...
Future Management: HUH? You knocked up the whole pay for the pilot group by an average of $35 per hour for Captains and $24 for First Officers. AND your work rule requests are out of sight. You want 747 and 777 crews to get an 85 hour minimum pay per month instead of 70, but a max ALV of 75. You want all WS's to be 1.5X pay, eliminate the GS trigger, IAs paying 2x pay even for reserve pilots, credit for short call, ability to drop turns to make trips commutable and every 3rd GS to pay 3X for regular pilots and 2X for reserve pilots!?!??? Are you NUTS!?

DALPA: You see, we love our passengers, our airline and our creditors very much. What we are doing, by asking for 5% less than AMR and trying to ensure for the sake of all involved that when people buy tickets on the best airline in the world, Delta, that they're assured they'll have the best pilots in the world, Delta pilots, flying. We are just simply looking out for them. Because we are lovers, not fighters.

Reporter: I love you guys!

Future Management: @##%@#!@$!@

Airline Pilot Forum Reader: ^^^ I'm about to barf again in my mouth.

FTB: To me it seems is if you get a big big pay raise, C2012+a lot, then you have to give up something (scope, section 23, etc) and then as soon as there is another downturn they come after the pay because its tangible and we lose pay and don't regain workrules. Thats like a normal union.

I believe in work rules with good pay because work rules are harder to figure out and undo and in the absurd example below we can already claim having lower wages, so you can't cut us. We operated in good faith.

And if any one of the them touched should have us screaming bloody murder as if a cut in the rate of school lunch program growth will leave poor kids starving in school cafeteria’s while all the rich kids eat in front of them.