Originally Posted by
hindsight2020
The majority of airline dudes I know (from the military side) are one domicile base change, one contract change, one fickle change of a specific construct, away from up and quitting.
......And some of you think that would be loaded,toxic and disingenuous to push forth to an aspirant? What could be more genuine? But our Schadenfreude clouds the manner in which we speak to others.
None of them [my peers] would pursue their present vocation absent the Guard/Reserve side gig or the ability to have MIL LEAVE available to them. None. I find THAT a disingenuous construct in that the median 121 pilot does not have a Guard/Reserve gig available to them.
So my peers are no different than the retiree or trust fund hobby crowd, or the perma-bachelor pilot, when it comes to substantiating their vocational solvency. To take career advice from people with any type of these, economic or non-economic, underlying subsidy constructs would be more than fool-hardy. I do believe most of them, as upstanding men and officers, would qualify their answers when offering career advice (ergo, admit their secondary source of income), but some would not even mention it. That's the optimism-biased lie people need to be concerned about, not SKyHigh's accurate indictment of the airline vocational solvency for the median aspirant, absent these artificialities.
So leave the "attiude determines your altitude" mantra to NASA and their dead space shuttle program; oh the irony of that agency, talk about becoming the "I don't owe your kids a role model" post-golden-day Charles Barkley of science- and aviation-aspiring youth. The rent is due on the 1st and they don't take ILS for payment. Attitude doesn't keep my peers in the cockpit; very specific and pragmatic series of economic incentives and offsets do, which in their absence they wouldn't blink twice to punch out. More to the point of this thread, it would leave the kid who got career advice from them with an empty bag of out-of-context "attitude" advice that doesn't apply to him nor sets him up for success. But of course that would be the kid's fault too, among this peanut gallery. Y'all can't have the cake and eat it too fellas. Skyhigh's assertion on the outcome of this career for the 50 percentile is right on. The fallacy is to suggest only people who have left the profession have a bone to pick with it. Plenty of disheartened laborers plague the field, and their grievances are justified. They just simply do not make them public because they have been conditioned by the belief that pessimism or skepticism is a socially undesirable trait. So they soldier on and push forth the lie until they themselves can't afford it anymore. Then they too will be called "quitters". I can live with the indictment of a couple fools who wish to blame my POV on an "attitude problem" while they also fail to contribute a red cent to the solvency and livelihood of my "more than one soul on board" household.
Skyhigh, your message is right on and has a place on this discourse, and it's not a marginalized message. Rock on brother.
Hindsight2020,
Civilian/Military/135/121 background.
I call BS on the first comment. I listen to the bellaching too.
Does the indutry have troubles? Yes, since the beginning of airlines. It's like swearing, nothing new here, all this is a rehash. Just the first time you are going through the experience. Well, some is rough, and some is OK. All deserves to be honestly discussed at all levels of said experience. But believe it should be objectively stated and not caustic. I find the naysayers caustic and bitter as you claim I am full of it. I have succeeded in the miltary flying, into the commercial side. Am still very realistic. Understand your viewpoint, but to say it is decidely one way is an understatement.
Have a sibling in the regionals without any mil background and is fully engaged on the realities of the business (he has a furlough under the belt from another company and quickly moved on to another opportunity and is an F/O )
The military construct=trust fund baby is pushing the limits of credulity. Have been in the arena and true enough for some for awhile, but most use the crutch because they want to stay flying, you make it seem as though EVERYONE is looking to leave. Fine, explain why they are not? I work with the same folks in the mil so I hear their honest responses too.
I quit the active duty military. I did in a furloughing environment, didn't have to fly, recruited at a head hunting firm using the mil and engineering background, but passed on it. Anyone else can too if it is so debilitating. Why I believe Skyhigh has potentially a terriffic and very useful voice. I heard guys like him in my teens but they tempered it with, but "now that you intellectually know the potential pitfalls, good luck"
Well, low and behold, being too stupid to quit worked out. I hit alot of downturns. Personal decision how many obstacles you will tolerate. I have talked kids outta flying too, because in discussion let them come to the realization that they did not have the desire to really fly. But it was their choice, their realization. Not one painted in constant abject "YOU WILL FAIL, IT SUCKS" scream.
I again point out Waflyboy as a good example of someone who was in the cockpit, decided to change jobs, and presents a positive element to the discussion. If I ever was to make the change, I would consult with him or point him out as a positive counter to a dreamy youngster because he is a motivating person, not negative.