flyund83, I'm not going to bicker or disagree about your post, however, I feel I have to correct some of your post so that other people read the truth.
Originally Posted by
flyund83
I went to UND from 2004-2009 as a commercial aviation major. I had good times and bad at UND. I literally can write a book on UND and their operations. These days I hear nothing but complaining and bickering from my flight instructor buddies and people I know who are still there getting things done.
Moral is rather low right now. Mostly because our average instructor has been working full-time now for nearly 3 years and has over 1000hrs dual given. None of us wanted to be here this long, but there aren't many places to go right now.
Some people can make it through the program, others cant. Mostly, because of the financial aspect. UND IS a 100K + school between, tuition, room/board, flight costs (including the redoing lessons), drinking money (when you're not flying because of wind/temperature limitations). I will say this if I counted on my fingers and toes everyone I knew who came to the program for aviation and left (transferred out) I would run out of fingers and toes. That's just how UND operates.
For example, let's say you took AVIT 102 (private pilot) ground school with your flight lab, you could finish your flights and get an "A" in the ground school BUT.. if you get a 75.3% on the final (which happened to me in commercial ground school) you have to retake the WHOLE ground school over... Another semester. This is because UND operates not under part 61 rules.
Correct, however this is NOT a UND rule (which is the way you make it sound), it is a FAR Part 141 rule. The same applies at any other school that operates under 141 (ERAU, Purdue (I think), etc.)
So there goes 2 semesters for 1 course. Other issues could be you got through ground school but you were not making satisfactory flight progress (which is decided by each instructor what is "satisfactory flight progress") then you have to redo ground school if you don't meet their date. A person could be down because of the 2 weeks of grounded flights due to winter conditions, or too windy or storms, or too cold, or just availability because of the contract students UND is teaching for Air China and Tokyo University students (yes, they DO get priority over us 'traditional' students because of their training deadlines)
Now that just makes me mad. They DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get aircraft priority or any other priority over other students. Yes, Air China and Tokai students have an accelerated flight training schedule but they also only take ground school (1 class), so their availability (
and work ethic) is much greater than the "traditional" student. My traditional students were some of the laziest I had and then complained when they couldn't finish on time cause aircraft weren't available everyday at the "only time they could fly" or they would lose flight points. Give me a break.
All I'm saying is I saw UND when they were in their better days and now it took a turn for the worse. That's just my opinion having been to 3 different university aviation programs. I know people will argue with me from UND about this, but really... they only know about UND and not ventured outside in the real world.
I'll agree that UND is on a slippery slope right now. The student enrollment has dropped due to the economy and bad press with the airlines and there is very little movement in the industry with little opportunity of going anywhere else without taking a significant paycut (ie.- great lakes, pt. 61 instructing). Like I said above, the moral sucks. No one thought they would be at UND this long.
But to say that you know "more" cause you're outside of UND now is just arrogance. Yes, some instructors drink the cool aid. But many others have been in the real world and outside the training environment (unlike you). Many instructors have done training under part 61 (I got my private before coming to UND under pt 61), teach under pt 61 on side (again me), and were furloughed or lost their flying job and came back to UND because it was best option available to them at that point (me again). I can count on both hands and feet more "real world" experiences than you can probably count on 1 finger.
I would like to say, that after leaving UND and ending up at a part 61 school I'm at now, I get to use the University aircraft (when available) for personal flying and taking trips at a HUGELY discounted rate. Can't do that at UND. So there are perks with the "not so greatest" schools.
Again you speak of that which you don't know. UND has always offered aircraft to instructors at a "HUGELY discounted rate". Many times I've hopped in an Arrow or cessna and flown to DLH or FAR just to get away. And considering what I pay includes fuel, its one heck of a deal. Will I get the aircraft during the peak training time? No, but I'll be working anyway so why would I need it. I have taken an aircraft for a weekend before and it just requires some planning and coordination with different people.... really not that difficult.
I don't feel its appropriate post prices on here, so don't ask. If you would like to know, I can PM you the price list.
I recommend anyone even considering UND to take a school visit (during winter) and see what they really think of it. I was a tour guide for the university and I know how much they really "fluffed" the material.
I completely agree with this. Go up during the winter if you can. -20 degrees F not including the wind chill isn't for everyone. Go on the tour and hear the "fluffed" material, then go back to the airport and find an experienced looking line instructor (during the school year, line instructors are the ones wearing the uniforms), and see if they have time to answer a couple questions about the flight training. They will give you an honest answer and will have more information than any of the tour guides. If someone came up to me and ask if I had time to answer a few questions, I would gladly do it. Heck, if I'm done for the day or not busy I might even give you a tour of some of the stuff they don't show you.
I told parents when they ask me questions the truth and my opinions and got fired for it hmmm.... so yeah UND is over rated. The industry really doesn't care for UND pilots or even the networking. So save the money and consider all possible options and choices.
Can't wait to see the heated responses to my post... hehehe....
See now your entire post read like someone who got jilted by UND. All the misinformation, "real world experience", "HUGELY discounted rates", reads like someone who's mad that they didn't get hired as a flight instructor and felt they were entitled to it, and then your last couple sentences pretty much put it all into light for me. You have a lot to learn about the real world my friend. Your right, the industry doesn't care about UND. Networking is about who you know. You won't get a job handed to you because you went to UND, but the people met up here and the friends you made will help. You might not care about UND anymore, but the pilot sitting across from you during your interview who went to UND might. And guess what... you just lost the job.