Originally Posted by
Slaphappy
give it a rest, skw isn't part of the merger and never will be. You'll take it to court and lose.
That will be for an arbitrator to decide.
Originally Posted by
amcnd
Completly agree!! if you read what the company (SkyWest) has told every one on there internal website, combining all three will never happen.. They would drop the XJT deal so fast... And Im sure they have alot of outs when it comes to this subject..
That is perfectly acceptable to me!
Originally Posted by
Slaphappy
I want whats best fo my airline and merging lists with 2 other airlines that don't share our culture is something I am 100% against. I am against people are my airline losing senority to others that want their position in base and seat. There is no whipsaw and there never has been one. I've said before ASA has gotten more aicraft in th past 2 years than skywest.
And what is your culture at your regional that is so special that you lump all other pilots in the category of they don't have your culture? As for seniority, I'm positive everyone will end up +/- 1-2% of their original seniority. And no one will be displaced from their aircraft, seat or base since that will cost tons of money in training and moving expenses. There will be fences and once the fences come down, you will only be able to bid into vacancies. As for whipsaw, didn't your airline take some 700s from ASA during their contract negotiations? Anyways, XJT has already been whipsawed by JA so don't tell me there has never been whipsaw!
Originally Posted by
Utah
Just what is this "whipsaw" you are talking about? Maybe you could provide some examples of such between the SkyWest and ASA pilot groups over the last 3 years or so.
I see benefits in one list as well as some negatives as well. For those advocating one list what negatives do you see? Are there none? Seniority for holding west coast domiciles is a big one that I see. The SkyWest pilot group has a lot to lose there. We've got a lot of west coast commuters to ORD, DEN and SLC, many have been waiting for years to get a transfer into California. Merging with anyone else would seriously hurt those pilots chances of ever getting based out west. I'd venture to say there are a lot more pilots wanting into SkyWest domiciles than SkyWest pilots wanting into ATL, IAH, or EWR. The one SkyWest pilot that I've heard pushing for one list lives in ATL, I can see how that benefits him.
Again on the whipsaw. ASA has a better contract than we do and have been getting the growth.
I've read that SKW took aircraft from ASA during their contract negotiations, which is probably why the MEC felt compelled to negotiate for language to protect against that in the future. I wonder how much the pilots gave up for that? And why is it that only pilots from one company get furloughed while the other one doesn't? How is that fair? SKW has already whipsawed XJT and decimated us.
We've had both an ONT and LAX bases and they were both the most junior bases out of the six we had. All new hires got sent to those two bases.
Originally Posted by
amcnd
True. And if the judge says yes all 3.. "Inc." will run from the offer as fast as they can. I think ASA/XJT pilots need to focus on reality.....
I hope they run rather than to keep trying to trample over our contract. The reality is that JA wants to have two lists for one reason and that reason is not for the benefit of the pilots on either list!
Originally Posted by
reelbigchair
Maybe I just never saw it, but has XJT ALPA announced that they are going to formally challenge it in court? There's a lot of talk on here, but I haven't seen any real disagreement from the folks that matter.
The only release I've seen says it must result in a "profitable airline, must honor the current CBA which benefits all pilots, and there must be a fair and equitable seniority list integration."
It doesn't expressly say that the integration must be with all three airlines, and it doesn't expressly mention their scope clause. I would think if they planned on challenging it, they'd make a more specific mention of it. Any XJT guys talk to their MEC about it? Is this going to court?
They are meeting with JA this week and give him their position. There have been a couple of other blastmails that are more specific.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
ASA pilots got a memo from our MEC that XJET plans to challenge it.
I hope they do. And I further hope the judge rules in favor of a three way merger. And I further hope that (as many have predicted, and as they did before) SKW, Inc. drops the whole deal to keep the SkyWest side non union (they will).
As I said before, let the Nevetsses of the group fall on their swords. In a couple of years, we will pick up the pieces for pennies on the dollar. XJET lost HOW much money last quarter?
At first I was just hoping we could hold the XJET pilots back, but it's become apparent that they aren't as strong as I thought. They don't know how to pick their battles. It is NOT a good idea to pick a fight with Jerry Atkin, and it is NOT a good idea to make your contract so expensive that no one can afford to hire you! I'm starting to become more convinced every day that this IS a lifeboat for them, and I may join the growing chorus of many, many ASA pilots demanding DOH for our pilots or nothing.
I don't mind fighting the battle for you guys and falling on my sword. Someone has to put their foot down and then maybe other will join. With that said, if it was just as easy to pick up the pieces in a couple of years, the geniuses in St. George would have taken that plan. The fact of the matter is that we have great value for SKW or anyone else including CAL. There is a reason why SKW is trying to buy us again. And if it comes to being liquidated, so be it. I rather do that than to continue enabling not only mainline management but now regional management to whipsaw us and cheer our race to the bottom.
JA is trying to trample thee most important part of our contract. If not this battle, then which one? Don't fall for the trick that we are too expensive. I don't get paid nearly enough for what I do. And giving JA two lists to play with only puts more downward pressure on our wages. Why would we willingly give him that tool?
I've got my lifeboat and it doesn't have SKW name on it.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
Now, it's looking less and less worth it, because I think we're buying a list of pilots who will be unhappy no matter what.
If JA would treat us with dignity and respect by honoring our contract, you would get 2600 happy pilots. Otherwise he will get what he paid for.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
I am actually one of ASA's hardliners, but am wise enough to know when to pick my battles and when not to. Your scope clause isn't worth the paper it's written on, because you forgot to include the eventuality of a subsidiary buying you. Oops! Thanks for playing. More crap put out by ALPA's finest lawyers!
This is for the lawyers to fight it out. But if not this battle, which battle will ever be more worth the fight?
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
We at ASA learned the hard way that pulling in the same direction is the best tactic under the SkyWest umbrella. We have no patience for the learning curve of 2800 pilots to come in who don't get that.
And you would deny us pulling in the same direction as the best tactic under the Skywest umbrella? We have no patience for the learning curve of 1600 pilots to come in who don't get that.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
So it doesn't matter if your % stays the same if 300 pilots hired into the industry after you get to upgrade before you.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
ASA FOs would be screwed by relative % too. Think about how it will extend their upgrade time.
I guess that's the price to pay for the CAL incumbency your management seems to treasure so much.
Originally Posted by
Captain Tony
HOW'D THAT WORK OUT FOR US AIR AGAIN?!!!! Last I checked, they reversed Nic and won. Not to mention dumping ALPO. Duh.
It didn't get overturned. The court said that the case isn't ripe yet so the DFR lawsuit that AWA won still stands.
Originally Posted by
goaround2000
First of all it doesn't matter what you or I want. It's called ALPA merger policy, you don't get to chose the method, you vote on the result, and if that doesn't work then an arbitrator will determine the outcome using....that's right you said it....ALPA merger policy, which post US-AWA fiasco, now includes everything in the mix as to not benefit one group significantly more than the other.
We don't get to vote on SLI.