gatorbird, again you missed the entire point of my post. I can appreciate you clarifying some things I stated...thats cool. In no way was I comparing Spirit's first year pay to United's...did I ever compare the two? It's obvious Spirit pays more than United first year....anybody can read that off the website...I was referencing how in your new CBA the first year FO pay actually decreased!!!! How can you go on strike and then decrease first year pay? To me that seems like nobody cares about the new guys on property. That's my opinion and is not really up for argument. If you dont agree then thats fine...but thats the way it looks to me. And for training cycles etc, frankly I could care less...I just think it's bush league that the airline did not offer leave of absences to furloughed pilots who worked hard to get there, and now have to resign their seniority number because of the "staffing model" as you put it. My friend has a phenomenal job now and makes way more than she ever could at spirit, not to mention the job security, yet she suffers from the same disease we all do....the love of flying. That's why these airlines can bully us all around...we would be willing to fly for peanuts...that's why I accepted low first year pay at United...as you graciosuly pointed out in your post. And, in my opinion again, if a bunch of the furloughs dont come back at 61 bucks an hour, or whatever the pay is, its actually cheaper in the long run to get new hires at the new, lower, first year pay rate of 38 bucks an hour. Again, thats just my opinion and I dont care who agrees or disagrees.