Originally Posted by
TOGA LK
Buzz, this is real estate that was given up by our illustrious ATL MEC/pro-management team. In the world of land warfare it is exponentially harder to retake turf than to defend it; same principles apply here. While I would like to believe that DAL ALPA may finally get a case of nasty in their soul, management has been awarding long term 70 and 76 seat contracts as fast as they can and right up to the limit. Of course a VP will will make a base tour and tell some sheep that he "hates RJ's," the reality is that a EMB 170-195 nor a CRJ-900 is a RJ. The 737's flown by Alaska aren't RJ's either but the damage is actually much worse. Realistically, it doesn't matter what some VP in a crew lounge states, it's not an official declaration and for all practical purposes he's lying. He probably flies back to ATL and high-fives his buddies," Yeah, I told them I hate RJ's.".
Even if management were to agree on restoring scope, they would caveat it with, "Well we've negotiated ten-year contracts with these carriers and it's economically impossible to buy our way out of these contracts until then." The reality, half the pilots at this airline will more than likely be retired before we could see that reversal come to fruition; it'd be three contracts down the road.
I've run the logic every which way I can, the only two options are the status quo or mergers. The status quo will only lead to more pain (the train wreck that already began long ago).
I think you're spot on here.
Originally Posted by
TOGA LK
The problem that needs to be addressed now is the mentality in ATL. Of all people, a pilot in a management position has chosen to reduce the 320 training program to "video professor-style" training. Ive flown with a multitude of great South pilots who really appreciated the 320 training program, referring to it as the old Delta way of doing busines; no more. Destroyed by one of our own, so he can save money in how we train and add the up front monetary savings to his resume. Hopefully, nothing goes wrong, if it does maybe they can pay for the damages out of his paycheck.
Similar in mentality, but an entirely different topic, scope/code shares. Seems like the crud sandwich always starts away from ATL. Management approaches DAL ALPA, requests more scope relief and code shares, ALPA negotiates a win for ATL in some other area (777 deliveries!), every base west of the Mississippi gets hosed.
Sorry, not optimistic in the least bit.
I'm not going to change the construct of your argument, just the target. ATL is mecca, but I don't think DALPA gives it whatever they want. This after all is the base that saw the 764 flying slashed in half and replaced by the 330 which isn't based here. That kind of slashing moves a lot of people down and out of a category. I flew with a lot of 88 Captains last year getting MD'd back to the right seat of whatever. The 320 and 9 are also here doing "ATL" flying and they rightfully probably hate it
as MSP, MEM, DTW and CVG are better facilities.
This is also the base where it took a significant acquisition of 90s before they'd allow the 88 pilots to be qualified on it. Had it not been for the surge of 90s only CVG, MSP and probably NYC pilots would fly the quality of trips that comes with the 90 (such as what the SLC pilots had) versus slugging it out in the 88 east of the Mississippi River to those awesome hotspots like the Dayton long and short overnight.
If I was the 88 A I was talking to a week ago I'd tell you about 1996 and who I think DALPA's primary concern is. And that's senior pilots (or at least as senior as the decision makers are at ALPA). If what he talked about was correct (especially when it came to lump sum retirements) then it would similar to what we saw at Continental Express when our ALPA negotiated to end the flow to CAL but guess what, the last qualified person was just junior of the lowest ALPA pilot negotiating the end of the flow. You take care of your own in other words.
Now that might draw the ire of PG or Slow and by all means I just throw it out there for the sake of the dialogue and a retort is always encouraged here. Otherwise, the thread would die.
I don't think ATL is the beneficiary of DALPA work but rather its just a pretty big facility, well not pretty, just big. If you saw a 744 base here while there is no 744 flying, that'd be a red flag for sure. But I do think LAX and the west coast don't get what they should get in terms of protection from the detrimental effects of Alaska. Let's hope New's source is right and that's being reviewed. What's good for LAX and SEA is good for ATL, MSP, MEM, NYC, DTW and CVG.