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Old 05-12-2011 | 03:42 AM
  #423  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
It is absurd. Absurdities are produced in SLI negotiations. The NW proposal had me losing 7% of relative seniority. The DL proposal had me gaining about 4-5% of relative seniority.

It's going to go someplace reasonable- and the colgan proposal is actually probably pretty close to how it's going to shake out.
+- 7% would not be too bad in the realm of an integration. Ultimately no group should see "gains" per se in their relative seniority. Under DOH every single Colgan pilot loses relative seniority with the exception of the pilots that were hired when the other two airlines were not hiring. Under Pinnacles methodology every single Colgan pilot loses close to 40%. Under the Colgan methodology every pilot of the three companies remains plus or minus 3% with most likely staying right where they are.

As has been mentioned, Bloch will likely go with a hybrid of all or none of any. No one suggested method is perfect and all (well 2 out of 3) have some merit.

Relative seniority is what controls a pilots life. People from all airlines need to understand that with a younger pilot group there WILL be a longevity spread likely in this final list as their have been in many of the past precedents. There will be 4 year guys next to 7 year guys and 20 year guys next to 13 year guys. The only way to prevent that is to go DOH. By going DOH you take a pilot with career expectation of being currently 10 in seniority who can hold any seat, any plane, any base and any schedule and you then make them barely top 500 in the new list....and it gets worse.

By going DOH you make half the Colgan captains street captains by putting a large number of FOs ahead of them. While an early 07' Colgan captain has seen progression and movement he will now stagnate for the next X number of years until every FO upgrades ahead of him before gaining anymore QOL. It is highly likely that the upgrade movement will be in the dash 8 or saab and when given a choice of sitting FO for another year or so or upgrading into a saab or dash 8 most will choose an upgrade.

I can see peoples arguments when they say "But ive been here 4 years, why does this guy whos been here 3 years go ahead of me?" We all simply work for different companies with totally different histories and dynamics. In reality 4 years at one company affords you the exact same as 3 years at another. While a 4 year Pinnacle pilot would be a junior CA a 3 year pilot at Colgan would be a junior CA. When you put the two together guess what? You are still two junior CAs next to each other in seniority who bid bottom of the barrel lines and share equal QOL.

Another scenario would be two similar pilots again. One is 4 numbers from upgrade and the other is 100. Why would the pilot who had no expectation of upgrade in the near future be able to instantly expect not only an upgrade, but an upgrade into a line while the other pilot would find that they are now 1+ year or more away from upgrade?

I know there is a lot of fear of Colgan coming in and stealing CRJ spots away, while there are some pilots who would want nothing more than the CRJ the reality is there are some at all companies who would see benefit in another certificates equipment for various reasons. It would be a wash more than likely. In addition, the 200 is in essence the same equipment as a dash 8. It pays nearly the same and in short time will pay exactly the same. Never mind the fact that it is a "jet" instead of a "prop" it pays the same.

This whole thing is a mess, when the results come out just tear off the band aid quick and get it over with.

I know there are countless arguments for the other two methods as well as the 15,000 other methods that could have been proposed. Luckily its not up to us, its up to Mr Bloch to put some sugar on this turd and make it presentable.
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