fly4booz,

You sound ticked off and angry with the VX purchase. What did you lose with the merger? I just lost my base and forced to either commute 2,200 nm to the next closest base, or uproot/disrupt the family and move them across the country. But sure, I'll answer...


I don't need to ask them anything. The transcripts are out for all to see. Each side did what they think is best for their own group, as would be expected.

Yes ALPA was voted in June 2015. The rest is irrelevant. It is (and was) an ALPA carrier when it was acquired in April 2016.

With ALPA voted in 9 months prior to the purchase date, it's unrealistic to have expected a new contract within 9 months. jetBlue just took 3 years for their first agreement after voting in ALPA. Stuff like that takes time. And VX does have a real seniority list. You may not like looking at it, but it's real.

It sounds like you're bitter over the VX proposal. And you've clearly said what AS was proposing was a "fair deal" so clearly you're heavily biased. I've come across some (and you sound like you're in that boat) that would be entirely POed if even one VX guy went above you on the final list. It's probably gonna happen, and best if you stop worrying about a list you can't control.

ALPA merger policy isn't an opinion, and it covers this scenario which is why it is applying here.

Now this is an opinion.

Hey, believe me I wish jetBlue did purchase us. Much closer culture, same business model, same fleet, much closer longevity for the two carriers, etc. etc. As for your "Uncle Brad and his boys" they had no choice if they wanted Alaska to stay as Alaska. That's why they paid what they did for VX. Delta is attacking your backyard in SEA pretty hard.

Yes, as mentioned the longevity variance is huge for the two companies. But it's a west coast regional airline that has always paid lower than the legacies with the primary draw of living where you wanted: PNW or Alaska. It's always been that way, and your contract reflects that.

What stepping stone? VX's attrition rate was similar to AS, proportionately speaking. We have lots of guys from Aloha, ATA, US Airways, AWA, and all sorts of other big airlines. When VX had it's primary run of attrition in 2011/2012/2013, it was mostly due to guys taking their recall rights back to United and AA.

I'd like to know who perpetuated this BS. My degree is in Aerospace Engineering.

VX was pretty tough to get on, and even the selection numbers for the interviews were low. In my group 5 out of 11 were hired. And btw, one guy not hired in my interview group at VX was hired by AS later that year. You can ask him which carrier was easier to get on.

AS has taken zero PIC too. These days PIC isn't a discriminate thing anymore.

Of course you did. And AS knows too, which is why they capitalize on your types. It's okay to admit you prioritize a geographic location over pay, but that's no longer true with Delta available for SEA, all the big airlines for LAX, and Fdx/UPS available for ANC.


Isn't that why you dreamed about working for AS? If you could be honest with yourself this quoted portion statement you just made is true for Alaska even before the VX purchase.

Yeah I noticed JFK is closing, I'm one of the affected ones. You sound like a broken record here. In this merger so far you've lost nothing! But best of luck in your next endeavor. I hope to join you soon in that regard. Unlike your situation, I have no choice if I ever want to get back to a NY base again.

Director of training came into our class and said hiring will resume this year. The December 2018 numbers came out and AS doesn’t have enough pilots he said. Hope this helps.

Not really.

Still sucks

I’m not upset with the purchase of VX. None of us had any control. I just don’t agree with how the SLI is playing out. Alaska and VX are not in the same league by any standard and obviously, you don’t like this reality. Every one of my peers knew that VX wasn’t a career airline. I guess you never got the intel. Looks like you’re an angry man but I sympathize with your situation due to your base closure. I really don’t have a dog in this fight anymore and realize that no one can change your views on anything. Hopefully DAL or B6 will pick you up. I hear JFK base goes very junior.

I’m not angry, just disapppinted how they’re running things but I can’t change any of that.

What are you so disappointed about the SLI proposal? You knew Virgin wasn’t a career airline? That’s nice, probably the same way I never applied to a Pacific Northwest regional type flying called Alaska. Anyway, Alaska’s proposal pretty much puts the first VX guy in the 2000 DOH range, and thats the #1 guy hired in Dec 2006. What else are you expecting? You wanted a true DOH merger? That’s not how it works. It looks like you thought you worked for a real legacy airline buying a small regional airline and expected a staple job. The SLI is headed to arbitration just like pretty much all the others have for the past 20 years for ALPA-ALPA carriers.

I think I’m done here. I wish the best for both sides. I’ve enjoyed the flying, layovers, and hanging with some of the coolest crews. I really wished I could talk myself into staying but I can’t see myself being happy here in the long run. SLI and scheduling alone sealed the deal. I may not get what I’m looking for elsewhere but at least I can make more money and buy my QOL. Peace out!

Possibly the most constructive thing I've read on any of these threads in the last month. And it's especially refreshing to read this, given that you admittedly


So from those of us that do still have a dog in this stupid fight in spite of our attempts to leave it, thank you for volunteering to put a stop to the seemingly endless cycle that pervades the rest of this forum:


1. "You guys (AS/VX) needed us more than we needed you"
2. "Let me (VX/AS) tell you why you're wrong, and it's you that got the windfall, not us"
3. "Guys, we need to be one pilot group. 2020! No scope no vote!"
4. "Totally! But just to clarify a few things... "
5. See 1


Please don't disappoint me by replying anymore.

I have to validate this sentiment. One guy I know could have been a UPS pilot a full decade before he got on with Alaska. He had to finish his college degree while working a full time flying job to support his family. He most certainly had the connections to go to Big Brown but was focused on his dream of being an AS pilot.

Now he is one. Dream accomplished. Corny as it sounds, he's living his dream.

Not everyone is in this business to fly wide bodies internationally for the money. More than a few are all about their families. That means QoL trumps $$$. Everyone wishes they could make more money but the key to happiness is living within your means.