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Originally Posted by Baradium
(Post 2864720)
The difference is significant enough that when AS guys ask about DL reserve rules I honestly feel bad responding. I change how I bid if I'm on reserve, but my overall QOL isn't all that different from when I hold a line and in some ways is better... and that's as a commuter. In fact, many times on many fleets the plug can be forced to a line because so many senior pilots bid reserve at various points. This isn't just the international aircraft either, it also happens on the narrowbody fleets.
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Originally Posted by Baradium
(Post 2864720)
I debated responding to this, but it needs to be said. Your understanding of other airlines reserve rules is severely lacking. The number of days off (which you are a little bit off on for us anyway) doesn't even tell half of the story.
The difference is significant enough that when AS guys ask about DL reserve rules I honestly feel bad responding. I change how I bid if I'm on reserve, but my overall QOL isn't all that different from when I hold a line and in some ways is better... and that's as a commuter. In fact, many times on many fleets the plug can be forced to a line because so many senior pilots bid reserve at various points. This isn't just the international aircraft either, it also happens on the narrowbody fleets. Reserve rules are really important to QOL, and when they are better it adds options for more senior pilots too. You are doing a disservice to your fellow pilots by trying to say "it's this bad everywhere" and implying improvements shouldn't be sought after. You should not have to accept any worse work rules or pay than anyone else. I actually feel that, at least on the 737 fleet (I don't run into AS Airbus pilots as often), AS pilots are probably the hardest working (737) pilots in the industry and should be compensated accordingly. You definitely shouldn't try to justify the horrible work rules by attempting to say that they are comparable to other majors. I can't speak to the AA or UA work rules, but I know my reserve experience is night and day different from my compatriots at AS. |
Originally Posted by WutFace
(Post 2864908)
Well said. There's a pervasive attitude at AS, even embraced by some former VXers, that what Alaska's got ain't that much different from the rest of the industry.
It's a dangerous mix of arrogance and ignorance that keeps these guys content with their status quo. Thank you for bursting that bubble again. Fingers crossed that the negotiation committee knows more than they are letting on |
Originally Posted by echelon
(Post 2865023)
Thanks for this. Can you be more specific about your reserve rules? Can you self-assign, bid commutable blocks, fly on days off above guarantee, trade days, etc?
All reserve pilots are long call. You can be escalated to short call up to 6 times per month. If you sit short call without an assignment you are given an hour credit towards guarantee. Short call callout is "promptly available" which is generally understood to mean something along the lines of " approximately two hours in normal traffic" for most bases. It's intentionally not a hard limit so that you don't have to stress about traffic changing throughout the day or if it's worse than you thought it would be. Some pilots report a lot of short call escalations relative to the maximum, but it really depends on how your day off blocks fall. You can "yellow slip" to preference flying on your reserve days although there's no guarantee you'll get them. A big money maker for reserve pilots is if they can setup to "green slip" (which is premium flying) on their days off. If you green slip on your days off as a reserve the trip is paid on top of reserve guarantee AND you are given back those days off on your next scheduled reserve on call days that month (if none are left they go into a payback day bank for use later in the year, it rolls into extra vacation days if you do not use them in that case). You can also preference to fly on days off, which has a position in the coverage ladder, but those slips are more tactical in use. On certain fleets reserve pilots can do what they call "rolling thunder" in which they bid to be off the beginning of the month and repeatedly green slip as the month goes on removing all of their reserve days and putting all of those trips on top of their original reserve guarantee, resulting in incredibly high monthly credits. This tactic seems to work best on junior fleets and bases, but even in more senior bases and positions it can happen at least partially. You can trade days based off of reserve availability and some other rules. Basically, if you aren't making the staffing worse you can move your days on your own. Reserve availability is posted and you have a visible position on the assignment list based on how much you've flown and the number of days you have available. You can also see what reserves have been given what assignment. Reserve assignments are structured and you have a good idea of what your chances of getting used are on a given day by your position on the list. If you reach the reserve guarantee in a given month you are labeled "full" and free of obligation for the remainder of the month. You have to meet or exceed the guarantee for this to happen. So if the guarantee is 75 hours, and you credit 75:00 you are off the rest of the month. If you are at 74:59 they can assign you another trip but you will be off if there are any days remaining after you complete it as you will then be full. Green slips do not count towards being full. |
Originally Posted by Baradium
(Post 2865341)
There is no limit to days off in a row awarded via PBS, so you can work all of your days in a single block. They can also connect with a previous month. In these cases the company seems to award a 30 hour rest period every 3-4 days to reset you to being legal for a 4 day trip, giving extra days off. They get the advantage of choosing where your maximum availability is while you get the benefit of extra time off. Since you go back to long call after the 30 hour rest period you end up with a minimum of well more than 30 hours before your next assignment or short call.
All reserve pilots are long call. You can be escalated to short call up to 6 times per month. If you sit short call without an assignment you are given an hour credit towards guarantee. Short call callout is "promptly available" which is generally understood to mean something along the lines of " approximately two hours in normal traffic" for most bases. It's intentionally not a hard limit so that you don't have to stress about traffic changing throughout the day or if it's worse than you thought it would be. Some pilots report a lot of short call escalations relative to the maximum, but it really depends on how your day off blocks fall. You can "yellow slip" to preference flying on your reserve days although there's no guarantee you'll get them. A big money maker for reserve pilots is if they can setup to "green slip" (which is premium flying) on their days off. If you green slip on your days off as a reserve the trip is paid on top of reserve guarantee AND you are given back those days off on your next scheduled reserve on call days that month (if none are left they go into a payback day bank for use later in the year, it rolls into extra vacation days if you do not use them in that case). You can also preference to fly on days off, which has a position in the coverage ladder, but those slips are more tactical in use. On certain fleets reserve pilots can do what they call "rolling thunder" in which they bid to be off the beginning of the month and repeatedly green slip as the month goes on removing all of their reserve days and putting all of those trips on top of their original reserve guarantee, resulting in incredibly high monthly credits. This tactic seems to work best on junior fleets and bases, but even in more senior bases and positions it can happen at least partially. You can trade days based off of reserve availability and some other rules. Basically, if you aren't making the staffing worse you can move your days on your own. Reserve availability is posted and you have a visible position on the assignment list based on how much you've flown and the number of days you have available. You can also see what reserves have been given what assignment. Reserve assignments are structured and you have a good idea of what your chances of getting used are on a given day by your position on the list. If you reach the reserve guarantee in a given month you are labeled "full" and free of obligation for the remainder of the month. You have to meet or exceed the guarantee for this to happen. So if the guarantee is 75 hours, and you credit 75:00 you are off the rest of the month. If you are at 74:59 they can assign you another trip but you will be off if there are any days remaining after you complete it as you will then be full. Green slips do not count towards being full. |
Originally Posted by Baradium
(Post 2865341)
There is no limit to days off in a row awarded via PBS, so you can work all of your days in a single block. They can also connect with a previous month. In these cases the company seems to award a 30 hour rest period every 3-4 days to reset you to being legal for a 4 day trip, giving extra days off. They get the advantage of choosing where your maximum availability is while you get the benefit of extra time off. Since you go back to long call after the 30 hour rest period you end up with a minimum of well more than 30 hours before your next assignment or short call.
All reserve pilots are long call. You can be escalated to short call up to 6 times per month. If you sit short call without an assignment you are given an hour credit towards guarantee. Short call callout is "promptly available" which is generally understood to mean something along the lines of " approximately two hours in normal traffic" for most bases. It's intentionally not a hard limit so that you don't have to stress about traffic changing throughout the day or if it's worse than you thought it would be. Some pilots report a lot of short call escalations relative to the maximum, but it really depends on how your day off blocks fall. You can "yellow slip" to preference flying on your reserve days although there's no guarantee you'll get them. A big money maker for reserve pilots is if they can setup to "green slip" (which is premium flying) on their days off. If you green slip on your days off as a reserve the trip is paid on top of reserve guarantee AND you are given back those days off on your next scheduled reserve on call days that month (if none are left they go into a payback day bank for use later in the year, it rolls into extra vacation days if you do not use them in that case). You can also preference to fly on days off, which has a position in the coverage ladder, but those slips are more tactical in use. On certain fleets reserve pilots can do what they call "rolling thunder" in which they bid to be off the beginning of the month and repeatedly green slip as the month goes on removing all of their reserve days and putting all of those trips on top of their original reserve guarantee, resulting in incredibly high monthly credits. This tactic seems to work best on junior fleets and bases, but even in more senior bases and positions it can happen at least partially. You can trade days based off of reserve availability and some other rules. Basically, if you aren't making the staffing worse you can move your days on your own. Reserve availability is posted and you have a visible position on the assignment list based on how much you've flown and the number of days you have available. You can also see what reserves have been given what assignment. Reserve assignments are structured and you have a good idea of what your chances of getting used are on a given day by your position on the list. If you reach the reserve guarantee in a given month you are labeled "full" and free of obligation for the remainder of the month. You have to meet or exceed the guarantee for this to happen. So if the guarantee is 75 hours, and you credit 75:00 you are off the rest of the month. If you are at 74:59 they can assign you another trip but you will be off if there are any days remaining after you complete it as you will then be full. Green slips do not count towards being full. Said no AS reserve pilot.... ever. |
Originally Posted by Baradium
(Post 2864720)
I debated responding to this, but it needs to be said. Your understanding of other airlines reserve rules is severely lacking. The number of days off (which you are a little bit off on for us anyway) doesn't even tell half of the story.
The difference is significant enough that when AS guys ask about DL reserve rules I honestly feel bad responding. I change how I bid if I'm on reserve, but my overall QOL isn't all that different from when I hold a line and in some ways is better... and that's as a commuter. In fact, many times on many fleets the plug can be forced to a line because so many senior pilots bid reserve at various points. This isn't just the international aircraft either, it also happens on the narrowbody fleets. Reserve rules are really important to QOL, and when they are better it adds options for more senior pilots too. You are doing a disservice to your fellow pilots by trying to say "it's this bad everywhere" and implying improvements shouldn't be sought after. You should not have to accept any worse work rules or pay than anyone else. I actually feel that, at least on the 737 fleet (I don't run into AS Airbus pilots as often), AS pilots are probably the hardest working (737) pilots in the industry and should be compensated accordingly. You definitely shouldn't try to justify the horrible work rules by attempting to say that they are comparable to other majors. I can't speak to the AA or UA work rules, but I know my reserve experience is night and day different from my compatriots at AS. I said commuting to reserve sucks. As in, commuting to then sit around xx amout of days away from your family hoping for a phone call and maybe flying. Maybe some people like it, I absolutely hated spending 5 days in a crashpad without flying. Although if you are constant LCR who can only be converted a couple times per month, then maybe more of reserve can be spent at home. To each their own. AS reserve sucks. It's barely tolerable living 30 minutes from the airport. I can't imagine how guys do it commuting to reserve here. The AS contract was clearly constructed for a pilot group that predominantly lives in base. Anyone coming in should do their due diligence/homework. What you wrote sounds like a really awesome reserve style/setup. But if anything thinks we at AS are gonna go from AS reserve rules to all of that stuff you just wrote for our contract 2020, they're in for a sore disappointment. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2865419)
I said commuting to reserve sucks. As in, commuting to then sit around xx amout of days away from your family hoping for a phone call and maybe flying. Maybe some people like it, I absolutely hated spending 5 days in a crashpad without flying. Although if you are constant LCR who can only be converted a couple times per month, then maybe more of reserve can be spent at home. To each their own.
AS reserve sucks. It's barely tolerable living 30 minutes from the airport. I can't imagine how guys do it commuting to reserve here. The AS contract was clearly constructed for a pilot group that predominantly lives in base. Anyone coming in should do their due diligence/homework. What you wrote sounds like a really awesome reserve style/setup. But if anything thinks we at AS are gonna go from AS reserve rules to all of that stuff you just wrote for our contract 2020, they're in for a sore disappointment. |
Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2865482)
Ahhhh yes.... the timeless “They’ll never give us that!”... defeatist argument. And.... I get it!!! Kasher evisceration in 08.... management infiltration of the Union in subsequent years... and a whole boat load VSP’rs. Hoping that between the VXrs (a lot of whom this ain’t their first rodeo), commuters, and new hires (within the last 4 years) we can set a new course. If you can’t negotiate a great contract in this environment.... then you won’t ever.
Had a DAL 330 CA in the jump the other day. He said their no vote 4 years ago was Delta’s first time EVER voting no on a contract. How many years did it take them to vote no on something? 70-80 years? Had we gotten our vote on the ‘17 CBA or for our original ‘18 section 6, maybe we too would have voted no for the first time, maybe not but don’t brush off the past as if we haven’t been severely impacted by it. Use it as a tool to learn from and become a more informed voter. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2865419)
I said commuting to reserve sucks. As in, commuting to then sit around xx amout of days away from your family hoping for a phone call and maybe flying.
Delta has so much flexibility that you can drop the days you need and pick up premium later in the month. Educate yourself on what's available out there before you spout off blanket statements. And if you're one of those who are willingly unable to fight for positive changes at this company, then quit. |
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