Was Alaska Ever a Truly Great Place to Work?
 

Given the pilot sentiments (maybe even shifting sentiments for some?) here at AS these days, I am curious to find out if there was ever a time when it was considered a really fun place to be at.
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If it was, share with us what made it so back in the day, and what was the turning point if you agree that things are not so great right now. Was it the Kasher award, or were there perceptible changes long before that?

Noting Mudhen200's mention about his proximity to "Geezerville" in another post, I'd especially love to hear from those old timers who've lived the history :)

Actually, it was. When I started, it paid 92% of what narrow body pilots at the Major airlines paid with one pay rate for all aircraft. So for the 727 guys, it was slightly less, the MD guys about on par and the 737-200 group got slightly more. To get that, however, the Union had to sign a no-strike clause that was never published in the contract (at National's direction).

The crew meals were first class meals which were some of the best in the industry.

There was only 750 pilots so you actually got to know each other. The F/As had the same pairings and lines so you flew an entire month with the same cabin crew. You could actually develop real crew bonding, especially in months when you had 4 day trips together.

It was all up and down the West Coast/Alaska so there was no circadian problems with time zone jumping. You may not know where you were when you woke up, but you sure knew what time it was.

The downhill slide began when Bruce Kennedy retired and Ray Vecci took over. Ray was brought in to put a meat ax to the cost structure and did so very adroitly. His replacements have pursued that policy religiously. That's pretty much why you are where you are today.

I think all of the legacies were pretty good places to work back in the day... up until the time they weren't.

Yes, no doubt that's true. hahaha... It's much appreciated that Packrat was kind enough to articulate some of the reasons specific to AS.

Also what passenger airline pilots still have their pension? Not everyone at Alaska has it, but some do.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. It was also the only pension plan given up voluntarily by a pilot group.

Read the title of the thread, That is the point I was trying to make. For some (Top 10%), it was and is still a great place to work.

I guess irony is dead to you. I wasn’t sure whether you were trying to imply that the future pilots were sold down the river thus contributing to the myriad reasons that Alaska is no longer a “truly great place to work.”

I think ‘05 took some of the luster off for me. Almost 20 years in and it’s been a ride. Hard to complain, lots of ups and downs though. Home on the sound, views out of almost every room, bought at a good time, only bummer is the 28k a year in tax on it. Drive to work, last year about 15 days a month off. I worked too hard, I drop and try to pick up as much good stuff as I can, some frown on it, I think it’s smart. Boat, small plane, more then I ever expected. Have one neighbor I think is in the same place as me, on the other side is a guy that probably throws away more money then I make. If I gaze too long out his direction, I feel like a looser, wonder why any one would become a pilot. I stayed all in that A plan, never voted anyone out of it, watched a lot of guys do it to themselves, wish everyone was in it. Have a good friend at SWA, commutes to OAK, lives in a track home, still probably 700k, he wishes he would have went to ALK. Every time he comes over he says, “ah so this is how a real pilot lives.” Seattle has gotten expensive though, worry about the new guys, I don’t think I would stay if I were them. Like to think this next contract will change a lot for them, but it would be hard to wait for a maybe if someone else were to call. Little more then 20 years left, I still enjoy flying, most everyone I fly with is awesome, it rarely feels like work.

So this guy is part of ALK’s 1%, I’m thinking? So you’re 45, and You’ve been crushing it for all these years? Cool story, bro.

To be fair, he *is* crushing it for someone who can't figure out the difference between "than" and "then" after all these years.

My apologies for my poor English, and I guess for my successes. My first two years at a regional and eight at Alaska were pretty meager. The last twelve years have been very good to me. Alaska has been a good career, it can be a lot better. You get one life, there are no points deducted for trying to make something with it!

At one point we were given a choice whether you wanted to stay on the A plan or go to an increased 401 contribution. Most of us elderly types elected to keep the A plan.

this has GOT to be completely sarcastic.....that’s how I read it atleast. No one could be this egotistical and out of touch with reality.

Reads like a reasonable and honest post for someone his shoes, also admits new guys should do the math and decide if worth staying.

The problem is the math changes. Also if there is a merger and you leave and go to the airline the merger ends up happening with, you lost seniority and really screwed up your math calculations.

should read " we were given the choice to pull the ladder up behind us, and become the only pilot group to ever willingly give up a pension."

Seriously? You’re one of the most critical guys on here, when you’re on any other airline’s thread, but one of your own, posts an obnoxiously boastful post and your response is “sounds perfectly reasonable?”

LOL, man. His response to the original post's title question, in a nutshell is essentially "yes, it worked out for me, but I'm not sure if it's necessarily the place for the junior folks." Like Shy, I also don't see an issue in his response.

So are FOs leaving Alaska these days?

I know a new CA that lived in base that left to commute to AA...not a young guy either.

Yes, according to Union podcast, we lost 8 FOs in Jan alone, the thought is that number will ramp up as more hiring occurs at the Legacies.

There are captains and FOs leaving for frontier and spirit.

That would be what you call a big financial mistake. Unless you don’t care and live in one of their bases

Not this again... We have been loosing about 2.3 a month since the integration was completed. During that time all the majors have been hiring a significant number. Mostly UAL with a sprinkle of DAL, AMR, FDX, and SWA. I am not aware of any Spirit or Frontier departures. Maybe but there would have to be more to the story. No matter how hard you beat the drum, it really is still a joke and management laughs at our cries of the big bad wolf. The line goes out the door and around the corner waiting to get on here. Maybe if the contract grinds to stop, everyone on here spouts this stuff, it just isn’t true... maybe someday, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

I think that you would make more at Spirit, unless this person lived in Seattle. More productive trips, more opportunities for premium at Spirit.

On a side note it seems we are quickly retreating back to the “bronze” growth model and Max 10’s... that will most likely chase a lot of junior guys and gals out of here. Hopefully, something gives soon and they decide again to take some risk. If we have such a great product lets go steal some market share, not hide in the hanger.

Now there’s a big surprise

the problem (well, one of them) is the fact that Alaska doesn’t have a great product. That’s one of the main reasons Alaska’s transcon traffic has dropped.

MEA right now..
https://media.tenor.com/images/1b619...2b8b/tenor.gif

The two senior FOs who left for Frontier, one went as their new Director of Training (a good move for him). The other I don’t know what position he obtained at Frontier, but he is also a super smart guy who has taught sims before. Maybe he went as a line pilot or maybe as something in training. Not sure. But these two departures are unique based on their backgrounds.

Anybody who wants a long happy career in the PNW/west coast is probably going to need the gold, or maybe silver plan.

Bronze = top guys getting the house in order before they sell the joint and cash out. AS needs to grow, or eventually get acquired (growth could hypothetically consist of them acquiring someone else, but no point in that if you're just going to downsize what you acquire).

If you look at the new hire breakdowns that SD has put out over the last few months, there were a few Spirit guys that came here. Everyone has a shoe that fits them best. The latest attrition list only shows 22 FO’s and potentially 2 (non retirement) CA’s have left in the last 6 months. The rest of the attrition list is filled with retirements. Where are people getting 40+ FO’s have left? The above mentioned 8 FOs that left in Jan are on the current attrition list.

27 resigned in 2018.

39 resigned last year.

8 have left this year, to date.

More will follow soon.

I'm aware of no CA's that have left. At best someone may have held a CA bid, or certainly could have held one, but no ACTUAL CA has resigned.

How many of those, “resigned”, went to other airlines and how many, “retired early”? How accurate is the attrition list? I count only 22 FO’s left from Aug 1st to Jan 28th. A handful of those FO’s had between 9-18 yrs until 65 so they didn’t necessarily go to other airlines. Two CA’s that left had 13 or less years to 65 so they could potentially have jumped ship. So how many pilots actually resigned AS and went to another airline?

The numbers I posted are actual resignations.

None of those noted are early retirees.


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Well, about 5 years ago I heard a Captain "resigned" and went to Spirit. Also, the word on the street is another Captain may soon resign...… he heard Delta pilots have better hot tubs at their layover hotels in LIH.

Yeah, exactly. How many of those resignations were asked to resign vs. how many left and went to another carrier? I’ve been told we’ve had a number of “early retirements” over the last few years.

just telling the guy I was flying with last night that, especially in this environment, “hey guys, let’s all pull together and save what we have left” isn’t very motivational compared to “let’s go kick some a$$!”

One captain took a down graded to to FO due to the terrible QOL, still didn’t enjoy his senior position as an Fo at Alaska, he is now at United. The senior FO that just left is now a $58 an hour FO at frontier, nothing more.
Most “legacy” airlines don’t see people flowing out to second tier airlines, that just doesn’t happen. When it happens here maybe people should put down the pipe and ask themselves why. Is it really that good here?