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Originally Posted by randomroute
(Post 2976822)
In a world of massive Airbus NEO orders, the only logical conclusion for AS’ under-utilization is cost.
They cant afford to maintain them. If theres no money to train pilots and certify planes, how tight of a money squeeze does the company have? Further, how badly is the team relying on the MAX solution? Alaska doesnt need to place an order for RJs, they have plenty of them-the Airbii. |
Originally Posted by Mea25000
(Post 2976971)
Right now from where I sit, I see 308 737 at AS by the end of 2025 and 787’s June 2028... 😱this is not a joke. Think about how many times I have been wrong, so laugh, laugh really hard.... Just check back. You ever wonder why NP is here? Just for a 737 order really? I wish I could stay and argue, but I am taking my wife to the Salish for dinner... happy Valentine’s Day my friend!
Cheers - Rob. |
Originally Posted by airb320
(Post 2977030)
What growth? The 200 airplanes JL just mentioned in his e-mail...100 replacement, 100 growth? Think about it, those 100 airplanes will ONLY generate about 550 CA’s (give or take a few) over 10years!
If you do the math it means that we already hired our most junior CA😉 |
Originally Posted by Mea25000
(Post 2976971)
Right now from where I sit, I see 308 737 at AS by the end of 2025 and 787’s June 2028... 😱this is not a joke. Think about how many times I have been wrong, so laugh, laugh really hard.... Just check back. You ever wonder why NP is here? Just for a 737 order really? I wish I could stay and argue, but I am taking my wife to the Salish for dinner... happy Valentine’s Day my friend!
Don't try to convince everyone you're the Moses of APC leading the poor lost AS pilots to the promised land. Give us a break. |
Originally Posted by airb320
(Post 2977030)
What growth? The 200 airplanes JL just mentioned in his e-mail...100 replacement, 100 growth? Think about it, those 100 airplanes will ONLY generate about 550 CA’s (give or take a few) over 10years!
If you do the math it means that we already hired our most junior CA😉 |
Originally Posted by WutFace
(Post 2977089)
You've been repeatedly wrong. Your timeline has slid so long you could have stolen 2nd base by now.
Don't try to convince everyone you're the Moses of APC leading the poor lost AS pilots to the promised land. Give us a break. Throwing down on M... If anyone has the lowdown on APC, it is him. Honest to God Bible truth Moses, or in this case wutface |
But where will we find a hard stand area large enough for a 787?!
only full flight would be to that gig Harbor airport let’s be realistic why wouldn’t they just start a alter ego and staff the widebody sans arctic eagle fleet commanders i thought 797s in 2025 why ancient 787s. anyways max schedule cancellations into August can’t wait for even more training to bid, hey push that recall light will ya?! |
Originally Posted by randomroute
(Post 2977119)
Yeah I’ll be a braindead lemming with a personality disorder for the next 35 years of my life. Spoken like a true regional pilot thats lucky to be playing the narrow body game because of a preferred hiring agreement.
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Originally Posted by snackysmores
(Post 2977149)
OO doesn't have a preferential hiring agreement.
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Originally Posted by randomroute
(Post 2977119)
Yeah I’ll be a braindead lemming with a personality disorder for the next 35 years of my life. Spoken like a true regional pilot thats lucky to be playing the narrow body game because of a preferred hiring agreement.
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Originally Posted by randomroute
(Post 2977119)
Yeah I’ll be a braindead lemming with a personality disorder for the next 35 years of my life. Spoken like a true regional pilot thats lucky to be playing the narrow body game because of a preferred hiring agreement.
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Originally Posted by randomroute
(Post 2977242)
Uh Oh, I really done myself in this time!
Guess I can always go back to playing in the sand if I lose my job for disturbing the fragility :eek: Dont worry Im on my way out! |
Ohhhhh! Story time!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Perspective....
We’ve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and there’s 56 posts on the issue so far.
AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2 Fleet plan, 787’s, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada.... FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that we’re gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committee’s STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, that’ll move the goal posts. And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ain’t the only ones that can form alliances. |
He is correct at 550ish. You have to add in retirements.
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
(Post 2977095)
Probably more like 1,200 Captains for 100 aircraft if you include the retirements over the next 10 years but I do understand your angst.
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Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2977421)
We’ve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and there’s 56 posts on the issue so far.
AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2 Fleet plan, 787’s, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada.... FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that we’re gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committee’s STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, that’ll move the goal posts. And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ain’t the only ones that can form alliances. |
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
(Post 2977469)
Nailed it! I’m not sure how this will effect us but it does give us an extra inch on leverage handle. We need to do as you say and tie ourselves into AA’s gains on their narrow body fleet. Get ourselves a snap up clause like UAL had.
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Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2977421)
We’ve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and there’s 56 posts on the issue so far.
AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2 Fleet plan, 787’s, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada.... FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that we’re gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committee’s STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, that’ll move the goal posts. And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ain’t the only ones that can form alliances. Post of the year Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2977421)
We’ve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and there’s 56 posts on the issue so far.
AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2 Fleet plan, 787’s, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada.... FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that we’re gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committee’s STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, that’ll move the goal posts. And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ain’t the only ones that can form alliances. AA work rules? No thank you |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2977641)
AA work rules? No thank you
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Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2977649)
just to clarify.... I didn’t mean THEIR workrules.... I meant the total $$$ package (they do make considerably more than us per days worked) PLUS proper workrules and scope
uhm I hate to break it to you but AMR is making only $12 more an hour for a 12 year captain, with no profit sharing, more expensive medical, and .5 percent better 401k.... careful what you wish for, I am confident we are already making more. I think your confused, people want to go to AMR for their W/B, not lackluster N/B rates. I want AMR’s retirements and widebodies, that’s it. They by far have the worst contract of any of the big 4. |
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
(Post 2977664)
uhm I hate to break it to you but AMR is making only $12 more an hour for a 12 year captain, with no profit sharing, more expensive medical, and .5 percent better 401k.... careful what you wish for, I am confident we are already making more.
I think your confused, people want to go to AMR for their W/B, not lackluster N/B rates. I want AMR’s retirements and widebodies, that’s it. They by far have the worst contract of any of the big 4. many QOL work rules need to be addressed. Along with better LTD and a few other things. I’m sure some will be fixed and some will remain the same once we get a contract (been in negotiations for a year now). FWIW on the APA forums most guys are negative (like all pilots) and assume that this will somehow reduce our narrowbody flights into Seattle. Hopefully it’s a win win for both sides. |
AMR profit sharing for 2019 was 1.4%
I am sure you will get many improvements in the coming contract. I just don’t want your current one, you must understand that. I hope this works out for everyone too, not just management. |
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
(Post 2977697)
AMR profit sharing for 2019 was 1.4%
I am sure you will get many improvements in the coming contract. I just don’t want your current one, you must understand that. I hope this works out for everyone too, not just management. I don’t know much about Alaska at all, but it seems the common thing is people debate the scope clause a bunch it seems. |
Originally Posted by Saabs
(Post 2977705)
trust me I understand more than you know, I miss the airways work rules.
I don’t know much about Alaska at all, but it seems the common thing is people debate the scope clause a bunch it seems. |
Originally Posted by Saabs
(Post 2977688)
we have profit sharing, but not as good as others. Managements initial contract opener had the same formula as deltas so better profit sharing is on the way.
many QOL work rules need to be addressed. Along with better LTD and a few other things. I’m sure some will be fixed and some will remain the same once we get a contract (been in negotiations for a year now). FWIW on the APA forums most guys are negative (like all pilots) and assume that this will somehow reduce our narrowbody flights into Seattle. Hopefully it’s a win win for both sides. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2977641)
AA work rules? No thank you
The AA work rule problems are reassignments. Other than that they’re pretty much industry standard. I work 6 days this month for 77 hours and 9 days next month for 79 because of some of work rules (IMAX). |
Originally Posted by mainlineAF
(Post 2977751)
The AA work rule problems are reassignments. Other than that they’re pretty much industry standard.
I work 6 days this month for 77 hours and 9 days next month for 79 because of some of work rules (IMAX). |
I got a lot of friends at AMR... they all got 18-15 days a month off. The 18 are w/b FO’s out of DFW and LAX.
I made 31k in profit sharing last year... let me guess, you made 60k with your 1.4% right? shy let me explain imax... for him it means he drinks XX, so he never has to work, makes the most money, is the best looking... don’t you just wish you were him |
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
(Post 2977664)
uhm I hate to break it to you but AMR is making only $12 more an hour for a 12 year captain, with no profit sharing, more expensive medical, and .5 percent better 401k.... careful what you wish for, I am confident we are already making more.
I think your confused, people want to go to AMR for their W/B, not lackluster N/B rates. I want AMR’s retirements and widebodies, that’s it. They by far have the worst contract of any of the big 4. Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? That’s not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful. |
Originally Posted by El Peso
(Post 2977879)
Honest question, what in Alaska contract do you think has you making more than a 737/320 AA pilot? Looking at the contract comparison, it’s not even close. Your only nugget I see is 150% for reassignments. The pay rate disparity isn’t just at 12 year CA, it’s the whole scale except year 1&2 FO. Then it diverges quickly.
Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? That’s not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful. |
Alaska joining Oneworld
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
(Post 2977768)
I got a lot of friends at AMR... they all got 18-15 days a month off. The 18 are w/b FO’s out of DFW and LAX.
I made 31k in profit sharing last year... let me guess, you made 60k with your 1.4% right? shy let me explain imax... for him it means he drinks XX, so he never has to work, makes the most money, is the best looking... don’t you just wish you were him Wtf are you talking about? Work rule wise our big problem is reassignments. It used to be reassignments and lack of average calendar day, but that got fixed. Profit sharing and STD/LTD are the two other big holes in our contract. The company opener offered delta PS so hopefully we can get disability fixed. To your last point about imax i have no clue what you’re babbling about. Maybe switch to decaf. |
Alaska joining Oneworld
Duplicate
Filler |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 2977759)
Can you explain? IMAX?
It’s a super confusing formula used to limit you to a rolling credit of 90. Each month it looks back of your last 8 months credit then uses 82 (i think it’s 82) as the credit for the 9th month and adds them together then takes an average. Whatever that number comes out to be is your “imax”. Basically you can credit a lot for 8 months then the 9th month you’re “imaxed” and only have to fly what your limit is. You then get paid the minimum line construction value while only having to work up to your imax. So you could work zero days and still get full pay. If you drove your imax low enough you would only have to fly a portion of the following month as well. I probably explained that really bad but it’s a good deal if you can get it to work for you. Lots of guys don’t mess with it. |
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
(Post 2977768)
I got a lot of friends at AMR... they all got 18-15 days a month off. The 18 are w/b FO’s out of DFW and LAX.
I made 31k in profit sharing last year... let me guess, you made 60k with your 1.4% right? shy let me explain imax... for him it means he drinks XX, so he never has to work, makes the most money, is the best looking... don’t you just wish you were him troll :cool: |
Originally Posted by El Peso
(Post 2977879)
Honest question, what in Alaska contract do you think has you making more than a 737/320 AA pilot? Looking at the contract comparison, it’s not even close. Your only nugget I see is 150% for reassignments. The pay rate disparity isn’t just at 12 year CA, it’s the whole scale except year 1&2 FO. Then it diverges quickly.
Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? That’s not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful. I think a large percentage of the pilot group is beyond ready for change though. |
So far with this announcement AA management has changed the SEA LAX schedule from all RJs to the current 1 A319 and 3RJs to 4 mainline jets and 1 RJ. So that’s a plus. As a soon to be SEA to LAX commuter I’m pretty happy. Throw in LAX crews flying the 777 flight to LHR and I’m set for the duration.
This will be good for both pilot groups. If the AA international flights do well then more flights will be added to compete with Delta. And that’s the name of the game. |
I think it will be a good thing for both airlines and both pilot groups. There are some things in our contact that are better than Alaska’s and vice versa. Overall our narrow body compensation is pretty similar, so it’s not like one group is undercutting the other. All the guys I know over there think they need big improvements in their contract, just like we need big improvements in ours.
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Originally Posted by Carlsbad
(Post 2978207)
I think it will be a good thing for both airlines and both pilot groups. There are some things in our contact that are better than Alaska’s and vice versa. Overall our narrow body compensation is pretty similar, so it’s not like one group is undercutting the other. All the guys I know over there think they need big improvements in their contract, just like we need big improvements in ours.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2978237)
The respective contracts are mostly irrelevant (scope aside) in a codeshare, you won't be cherry-picking each other's contracts unless there's an actual merger.
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