Alaska a stepping stone?
03-12-2016, 11:08 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: A330
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by rmcbear08
Count me in too!
03-13-2016, 06:07 AM
#33
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 18
It's not a stepping stone. Personally, again, I think some people are making it out to be that way in effort to discourage people from coming and leaving.
They are doing this instead of writing their union reps, educating themselves on the industry, and working on the current contract to make things better. They just are making this seem to be a stepping stone and have a "well I got mine" and "you should leave and get yours attitude" instead of helping make things better through all available channels.
Unfortunately, we have a group of yes voters that will sign the contract based on hourly pay alone which got us into last place on our current CBA among the legacies. You hear it on the line all the time, "you see the pay rates Detla just turned down?" Ummm what?!? They didn't just turn down pay rates.... They turned down work rules and all the rest.
I hope we can disbar the stepping stone propaganda and focus on the fact we dropped the ball in 2012 and we need to negotiate until we have a good contract for everyone on property. And not just a pension for some and not for others. Not just based on pay rates. A contract that makes it equitable for all on the property.
They are doing this instead of writing their union reps, educating themselves on the industry, and working on the current contract to make things better. They just are making this seem to be a stepping stone and have a "well I got mine" and "you should leave and get yours attitude" instead of helping make things better through all available channels.
Unfortunately, we have a group of yes voters that will sign the contract based on hourly pay alone which got us into last place on our current CBA among the legacies. You hear it on the line all the time, "you see the pay rates Detla just turned down?" Ummm what?!? They didn't just turn down pay rates.... They turned down work rules and all the rest.
I hope we can disbar the stepping stone propaganda and focus on the fact we dropped the ball in 2012 and we need to negotiate until we have a good contract for everyone on property. And not just a pension for some and not for others. Not just based on pay rates. A contract that makes it equitable for all on the property.
Last edited by flyslow24; 03-13-2016 at 06:08 AM. Reason: wrong word
03-13-2016, 06:08 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,898
Sounds like most airlines that aren't a legacy/ Fedex is a stepping stone due to the pay. Maybe not Hawaiian since it's an island airline but anyone with a higher paying company close by will be for many people.
03-13-2016, 11:35 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Captain B-737
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by ATR35
I'm surprised to hear it's a stepping stone. My brother in law is a captain and I remember how hard it was just to get an interview, this was probably early 2000 that he finally got hired. It took years of job fairs, etc before he even got an interview.
No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is.
Last edited by EskimoJoe; 03-13-2016 at 11:55 AM.
03-13-2016, 11:47 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Captain B-737
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by flyslow24
It's not a stepping stone. Personally, again, I think some people are making it out to be that way in effort to discourage people from coming and leaving.
They are doing this instead of writing their union reps, educating themselves on the industry, and working on the current contract to make things better. They just are making this seem to be a stepping stone and have a "well I got mine" and "you should leave and get yours attitude" instead of helping make things better through all available channels.
Unfortunately, we have a group of yes voters that will sign the contract based on hourly pay alone which got us into last place on our current CBA among the legacies. You hear it on the line all the time, "you see the pay rates Detla just turned down?" Ummm what?!? They didn't just turn down pay rates.... They turned down work rules and all the rest.
I hope we can disbar the stepping stone propaganda and focus on the fact we dropped the ball in 2012 and we need to negotiate until we have a good contract for everyone on property. And not just a pension for some and not for others. Not just based on pay rates. A contract that makes it equitable for all on the property.
They are doing this instead of writing their union reps, educating themselves on the industry, and working on the current contract to make things better. They just are making this seem to be a stepping stone and have a "well I got mine" and "you should leave and get yours attitude" instead of helping make things better through all available channels.
Unfortunately, we have a group of yes voters that will sign the contract based on hourly pay alone which got us into last place on our current CBA among the legacies. You hear it on the line all the time, "you see the pay rates Detla just turned down?" Ummm what?!? They didn't just turn down pay rates.... They turned down work rules and all the rest.
I hope we can disbar the stepping stone propaganda and focus on the fact we dropped the ball in 2012 and we need to negotiate until we have a good contract for everyone on property. And not just a pension for some and not for others. Not just based on pay rates. A contract that makes it equitable for all on the property.
They still didn't care. Nothing has changed.
03-13-2016, 01:28 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 396
[QUOTE=EskimoJoe;2088107]It's the contract and career earnings that's the problem. It's still pretty hard to get on here which begs the question for really qualified people, why would you devalue your career by at least 7 figures just to fly with an Eskimo on your tail? There's valid reasons for that...for some, but let's be honest. Cash is King and Alaska Management will *NEVER* be willing to compensate anything close to what the big 3 do. Don't blame the pilot group either. That old Cliche' of a "weak" pilot group. Newsflash, every single airline has pilots in it that think their group is the "weakest" in the Industry. It's not true. The RLA is paralyzing to labor groups. That's the problem.
No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is."
Eskimo, I agree with you on many fronts but you have call a spade a spade. Alaskan pilot group as a whole is one of the most pathetic WDs in the industry! Do you think Delta, AA, SWA would have have signed up for our last TA? 60+% of our guys willingly accepted a $hit sandwich. The company didn't jamm it down their throat; the union did but each person had a choice! These sheep couldn't even exercise the little power they had. Sad fact is that this management knows this. The only way we're ever going to get anything is if we are willing to burn down the house. This management is too arrogant and they're not going to give up their tiny piece of the pie and forego the ability to rub shoulders with the likes of Microsoft and Boeing. Pilots, especially Alaskan boys & girls, are horrible poker players.
No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is."
Eskimo, I agree with you on many fronts but you have call a spade a spade. Alaskan pilot group as a whole is one of the most pathetic WDs in the industry! Do you think Delta, AA, SWA would have have signed up for our last TA? 60+% of our guys willingly accepted a $hit sandwich. The company didn't jamm it down their throat; the union did but each person had a choice! These sheep couldn't even exercise the little power they had. Sad fact is that this management knows this. The only way we're ever going to get anything is if we are willing to burn down the house. This management is too arrogant and they're not going to give up their tiny piece of the pie and forego the ability to rub shoulders with the likes of Microsoft and Boeing. Pilots, especially Alaskan boys & girls, are horrible poker players.
03-13-2016, 02:55 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Captain B-737
Posts: 290
[QUOTE=2loud;2088166]
Some bases are worse than others. My guess is the percentage of yes voters is directly related to the latitude of that base. The further north, the higher the percentage.
Originally Posted by EskimoJoe
It's the contract and career earnings that's the problem. It's still pretty hard to get on here which begs the question for really qualified people, why would you devalue your career by at least 7 figures just to fly with an Eskimo on your tail? There's valid reasons for that...for some, but let's be honest. Cash is King and Alaska Management will *NEVER* be willing to compensate anything close to what the big 3 do. Don't blame the pilot group either. That old Cliche' of a "weak" pilot group. Newsflash, every single airline has pilots in it that think their group is the "weakest" in the Industry. It's not true. The RLA is paralyzing to labor groups. That's the problem.
No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is."
Eskimo, I agree with you on many fronts but you have call a spade a spade. Alaskan pilot group as a whole is one of the most pathetic WDs in the industry! Do you think Delta, AA, SWA would have have signed up for our last TA? 60+% of our guys willingly accepted a $hit sandwich. The company didn't jamm it down their throat; the union did but each person had a choice! These sheep couldn't even exercise the little power they had. Sad fact is that this management knows this. The only way we're ever going to get anything is if we are willing to burn down the house. This management is too arrogant and they're not going to give up their tiny piece of the pie and forego the ability to rub shoulders with the likes of Microsoft and Boeing. Pilots, especially Alaskan boys & girls, are horrible poker players.
No. It's not strength or weakness, it's Management. They are nice guys at the company meet and greets...that's where it ends. Abruptly. Alaska Pilots will ALWAYS be compensated at 80-85% of the Big 3. If that's ok, fine. If not, Alaska is a stepping stone. At least for now it is."
Eskimo, I agree with you on many fronts but you have call a spade a spade. Alaskan pilot group as a whole is one of the most pathetic WDs in the industry! Do you think Delta, AA, SWA would have have signed up for our last TA? 60+% of our guys willingly accepted a $hit sandwich. The company didn't jamm it down their throat; the union did but each person had a choice! These sheep couldn't even exercise the little power they had. Sad fact is that this management knows this. The only way we're ever going to get anything is if we are willing to burn down the house. This management is too arrogant and they're not going to give up their tiny piece of the pie and forego the ability to rub shoulders with the likes of Microsoft and Boeing. Pilots, especially Alaskan boys & girls, are horrible poker players.
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