Bu!!$hit. As opposed to what? The zero growth they were experiencing when they bought us? How long was their upgrade supposed to take then?

Try not to believe everything you hear from a group that got all of the captain seats and gained an average of 8% in relative seniority while we took an average 22% hit. Unless your friends are those that got hired after the Date of Merger announcement and think they should have been put ahead of anyone that was already on property :rolleyes:

Sorry Whacky old chum ,my wife would have made captain this year,she is looking at 5 more years in an albeit lucrative right seat, thanks to the merger, she and I aren't bitter, this biz is what it is, but facts is facts, even if they don't fit your agenda, and by the way we aren't tranny haters, 2 very good friends came along with the merger, one is "meh" about it,the other is very glad to be part of SWA, life goes on. Cheers out.

So, not 1 AT pilot transitioned to SWA as a Captain? Might want to verify that.

I don't know if my upgrade will be pushed back 5 years, but I do know that 750 former AT pilots have dibs on it before I do.

If there is any if the SLI is relative at all it could be AS pilots furloughed. :eek:

I'm still trying to figure out why AK would want this? For a few slots/gates? Just doesn't seem to be much in it for them. Or am I missing something?

It's not so much that Alaska wants it. They would do it to block JetBlue from being the buyer of Virgin. A JB/VA deal would be a big threat to Alaska.

Maybe I'm also missing something else, but I don't see a JB/VA being a big threat to Alaska. JB/VA pretty much overlap on all the routes, sure some additional slots/gates, but a big threat to Alaska, I don't buy it. I guess it would get JB into Hawaii, but JB has the HA codeshares and Hawaii is pretty saturated it seems.

Not if AS draws down VX while operating it as a separate entity. Remember Comair?

There are a lot of subjects that have to discussed here. One of which is there can be no staple. Second, the language in AS's CBA about M&A. Does it state the Company being AS or AAG? The reason I mention this is, as a former QXer, we were burned by the same such language. If it's with Alaska Airlines, then I believe it's going to tough because VX would be part of AAG. Not part of Alaska Airlines. Another thing is the eventual integration. You can't do relative seniority because there is no way that a 9 year Captain at VX should placed ahead of a 25 year Captain at AS. Date of hire is not really fair either because almost every Captain at VX would be knocked out of there seat. I believe upgrade at AS is around 9 years???

General question, does a merger or acquisition date ,with regards to contracts and/or ALPA, become effective when a company makes an announcement or after regulatory approval(various govt agencies depending on domestic, international etc) ?

I believe DOJ approval. Probably wrong though...

I hope it works out for them. They've been expanding as Delta tries to takeover SEA. They get SFO, LAX, and JFK. Risky, but given the battle with Delta probably a good move.

Most of them (for Seniority List Integration) have been the announcement date. I think AA was the first one in a while where they used the actual consummation of the merger post-DOJ, due to there being doubt as to whether it was going to go through.

What's the deal with the new subsidiary AAG just started? McGee air services? Could they buy VX and operate separately?

They did the same thing with Jet America back in 1987. Ran them separately for a couple of years before finally merging them.

Not really. No bump, no flush would insure no VX Captain lost his seat unless he bids out of it. You're right about seat position integration though.

And straight DoH probably won't work either because while AS was stagnant, VX was hiring.

It'll probably be some kind of ratio deal where the senior guy on the VX list is addedAt the 2007 level followed by a number of AS guys followed by the next VX guy and so on down the list. That's what happens during the AS/JA merger in '87.

Whatever happens, there will be guys whose feelings get hurt.

They will probably integrate Captains with Captains, FOs with FOs. That's probably the likely way.

If they were being operated on seperate certificates they wouldn't have recall rights to anything.

It's fun to speculate. After all, it's a web forum and some love to play CEO/big players here. I'll give my .02, for the sake of entertainment because after all, we are just line swines who move airplanes. We really don't know when our next crew meal is coming from, let alone interpret a crystal ball.
There are many ways the puzzle palace can slice and dice this deal, if it were to happen. Remember one thing..... the bottom line is the $$$, ALWAYS! Stability, growth, and most importantly profitability & earning potential are some of the key factors in keeping Wall Street happy. It's a game and this management group plays it well. I suggest that everyone keep their cool and chill out. Some will make out and some will feel like they got screwed but no one will completely lose out, IMHO. As evil and greedy this management appears to be, they are not stupid enough to cause turmoil within the different work groups. Remember the Benjamins!

This will hopefully allow AS to transition to the Airbus family of a/c. They provide a superior experience for the passenger.

And pilot. Tray table and no stupid yoke to get on the way of your nap

I recently received a call about an interview at Alaska later this month, I'm assuming if this AS/VX deal goes through they will be canceling interviews. What about the guys that are in the pool at Alaska, will this most likely screw them over?

The only criterion of a successful merger is when all participants feel they got screwed equally.

"I got screwed in the merger" was originated by Pontius Pilote years before the invention of the airplane.

My apologies for hijacking an Alaska/Virgin thread...

This argument can be easily solved by going to myseniority.com. Plug in last name and employee number. Using a December 2015 hire reveals upgrade (achieving 50% on master seniority list) times as follows:

0% growth: March 2031= 15 years
1% growth: July 2029 = 13 years
2% growth: March 2028= 12 years
3% growth: Feb 2027 = 11 years
4% growth: Feb 2026 = 10 years
5% growth: Feb 2025 = 9 years

Using a 5 year FO (hired March 2011):

0% growth: Nov 2028= 17 years
1% growth: Aug 2027 = 16 years
2% growth: June 2026= 15 years
3% growth: April 2025 = 14 years
4% growth: April 2024 = 13 years
5% growth: June 2023 = 12 years

Alaska nearing deal to acquire Virgin America
 

At SWA, the most junior captain on the list usually sits at about 58% on the list FWIW. So the numbers Barco mentioned aren't really the whole story

It's too early to tell... Go to the interview and tell us what they say!

Do you mind elaborating on that a little. Alaska hasn't called anyone for interviews since middle of last year. Did they ask you to fill an application out? I do not consider Smart Recruiters profile an "application".

Also why would they stop hiring if they acquired VX? It is not like they are shutting their routes down and flooding AS with all the pilots and planes. Both airlines are hiring and have flying to do. So why would they all the sudden stop?

I did fill out a smart recruiters profile, but never received a "phone interview" call like a lot of people apparently have. I haven't heard of anyone else scheduled to interview this month, I'm curious to find out.

I realize both airlines will continue to hire, I'm just a little concerned that they might postpone hiring pilots and slim down the pool for a while. It sounds like those currently in the pool are concerned about this as well.

based on the call you received, do you have a "in person" interview scheduled with Alaska?

Yes, it's a two day interview.

i guess those SFO and LAX gates are pretty valuable....

So it looks like this is happening.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/alaska-air-expected-to-announce-virgin-america-deal-monday-2016-04-03

You are correct. At 58% it's closer to a 13 year upgrade, no growth.

Wow, 1 billion over current market capitalization with another run up close to 1/2 billion dollars the last month after take over speculation began.

There is no fair way to merge a seniority list. Somebody gets hurt in every single scenario. The top pilot at vx, your 9 year captain, can and probably will end up senior to a 25 Alaska captain. This is why the legacy pilots want no part of merging with any of the newer carriers like Jetblue or VX.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but this is an acquisition, not a merger. For example AA merged with US as opposed to SW acquiring AirTran.

Perhaps, but when AS acquired JA it was treated as a merger for SLI purposes. I'd be very disappointed if you saw any "Hired Not Acquired" tags on AS pilot bags.

https://resource.alaskaair.net/~/med...ns/desktop.jpg

Link: Home - Flying Better Together

That says single operating certificate under the Alaska Airlines name by Q1 2018. That is very significant. This would be a merger from the pilots' perspectives.