Delta blinks (again)
 

Delta puts expansion plans at Sea-Tac on hold | KIRO-TV

I recall some of us talking about the lack of gate space and other infrastructure issues a few years ago when Delta started down this road. I still think buying Alaska is the best way for Delta to take over SEATAC.

If Delta were to buy Alaska at this point, there would be a massive forfeiture of gates / infrastructure forced upon it by the DOJ to make the deal go through, arguably to the point of making the deal not worth it in the long run.
Alaska is still valuable in that it keeps the real revenue killers, ALG/NK/FRT at bay as well in SEA.
Sort of like the fact that since SWA has taken over AT in ATL, the yields to many of the domestic markets have risen.
SEATAC really wants to be an international gateway, and this kind of stuff is what it takes to get politicians moving towards getting the customs upgrades that otherwise may take decades.

It will never be allowed by DOJ. Certainly anti-trust. Delta "wanting to expand" isn't a valid economic reason to have almost no competition in SEA, especially now that AS has purchased VX.

Also, since AS just paid $4B (cash and debt) for VX, DAL would have to pay $10B for AS, and that makes no sense at all. It's not going to happen because of economics for DAL or DOJ disapproval.

You said it all. Hit the nail on the head.

Read the article. International only. But if AS wants to celebrate a win for DL not adding a couple more China cities & FRA, have at it. They could add more INTL but flights would be in off hours and not sync with the hub. In fact DL will be announcing further domestic flights very soon - and even more if they can get Port to sign off on reconfiguring the B gates for 3 additional parking spaces.

They're right about customs congestion, last month backed up all the way into the jetway.

Way to really over react! This has to do with putting pressure on SEATAC to get moving on the international terminal. According to EB, it's only temporary since they don't want to force the customers to stand around in customs. In a longer interview, he stated that if other carriers want to mistreat their customers that way, fine, but Delta wasn't going to.

If celebrating this makes you and AS feel good, have at it. In the end, it doesn't change anything. Just don't be surprised as the domestic part continues to ramp up and before you know it, you're inundated with a bunch of C Series!

My 737 can beat up your 737.

Except in JNU! :D

Pretty soon there will be some new virgins flying in there.

You do understand that a large number of the passengers arriving on the Delta international flights connect on Alaska? That means less flights equals fewer jobs at Alaska. This also has no bearing on domestic expansion. The current plan is for SEA to be the first C100 base.

It's so cute how protective some of you are over one city...

Just talked to one of the SEA tech ops big wigs recently. He said SEA is planned to double in size once everything is completed, terminal and customs.

So, that's what, about 8-10 years?! And there is no way there will be that many more gates, and the runways cannot handle that much more traffic. I think your tech ops dude is dreaming ...

If you want to believe that go ahead. Delta has already said SEA will grow, the cseries are going there and international will grow once a new customs facility is built.

If you build it they will come.

If it does turn out to be true that SEA will be the first C-Series base, it'll be a big middle finger to Boeing, too. Intentional or not, that's a bold move.

I think AK buying an all airbus airline and potentially operating them is more of a middle finger.

No different than if the E190s showed up and went to SEA as planned.
I like to think if Boeing cared so much then we would have had a Boeing order.

please stop using logic

Not much Alaska could control regarding VA's fleet type. My money is that Alaska most likely will replace those Airbuses with Boeing once they start timing out. Our decision to go with Bombardier is more intentional.

That being said, I think United forced our hand when they ordered those extra 737-700 NGs thereby most likely selling out the remaining order slots before Boeing goes all MAX.

You really believe that the runways at SEA cannot handle that much more traffic?

it helps him sleep at night

Boeing moving the corporate structure to Chicago was a huge middle finger to SEA. They have no loyalty to SEA beyond lip service to placate the local population. The fact that we are taking 330s and 350s over the 777 and 787 should be the middle finger to Boeing.

There's NOTHING to rent in all of Tuscany??? Nothing available?:eek:

So, what is your estimate on the timing to complete a NEW customs facility? The estimate to complete the renovations on the existing north satellite are 2020-2022, I believe. So, a new facility will likely take longer, I am guessing....

Not sure if you fly through there often or not ... But to me, it looks like SEA does not seem able to handle much more traffic, especially if Delta says they are going to "double" their traffic. If a lot that growth is heavies, which requires increased spacing for wake turbulence and they only take-off or land on the inside runway, that will further affect SEA's traffic flow. Sorry to use logic, as I know it may not help you bubbas sleep at night...

I fly there and lots of other places.

When you're number 20 to takeoff on a sunny day, you'll know that KSEA is maxed out.

Until then . . . not even close!

Plenty of room for growth at all hours of the day.

Gates/customs are the only limiting factor.

You must fly in a insulated world. Come out to JFK some afternoon and I will show you what busy looks like. SEA has lots of room to grow. I have never had a taxi time longer then 20 minutes in SEA and can't recall ever holding inbound. Ground facilities are the limiting factor. Delta will have 3 more domestic gates coming online for the C series. That will give them 30 more domestic flights a day. The city of Seattle is pulling out all the stops to fix the customs issue. They are looking at remote gating with buses additional domestic.

How long did SEA function with16C closed? Rwys are not an issue.

According to this

Ready for take-off in 2016: vast expansion of Sea-Tac Airport - Puget Sound Business Journal



AK has 5,000 landings a month vs Delta's 1500~

Imagine what Delta will be able to do once they have close to the same number of gates in a couple years.

Yep you are from that squadron!

SEA customs / immigration is a nightmare that could quite easily be fixed by implementing a slot system. Why have so many widebodies (8?) arrive in one hour, just around noon? Spread it out! Standing in the hallway in double lines for over an hour is not doing anybody any good. I've stood there, quite a few times.

As far as Boeing and loyalty to As or Seattle.... there is none! Headquarters moved to Chicago, training center to Miami, half of 787 to S. Carolina, part of design to Russia, 787 parts to all over the world. 777-X almost left but thanks to a subsidy from the taxpayers in a fight to keep jobs it stays in Everett. Trying to keep jobs so they can lay off 4000 people.
I would be very surprised if the next plane they come out with will be built in Seattle. Charleston, Alabama, China....
And a little fish like AS should be important when a Ryanair orders 200 737's at a time, or Emirates orders 100 777's? I am surprised there is not a 777 assembly plant in Dubai (DWC) yet. Plenty of space, plenty of cheap labor, and another biggest / first / only "thing" in Dubai. Aluminium plant next to the airport. Two of your biggest customers within 30 minutes flying. Quality control will be a big issue. The mentality of the cheap labor is that it does not matter if something fits correctly, if it kinda looks ok, then it is good enough.

Is Cricket "That guy from Kadena" ????

As I derive from the post from FIIGMO.....???????possibly intimate knowledge??????

Until then, summer schedule of 2017 appears to be a contraction, when compared to this summer(2016). Many current markets will no longer be served non-stop by Delta out of Seattle (MSO, BIL, BZN). Some appear to be straight up abandoned, meaning Alaska is going to run those flights......again (JNU, SIT, KTN)

I think UAL is trying to make SFO such an Asian fortress, that they make SEA irrelevant both DAL and AK. ;)

AK and DL combined are at 215/day. Add 85/day for other operators and we are at 300/day. If Gatwick can handle close to 900 operations a day, and San Diego can handle upwards of 500, SEATAC should certainly be able to bump their daily numbers to 400 even if they were to shut down 2 of the existing 3 runways. Limitation is in gate space and FIS. That is fixable even with some temporary buildings. Maybe they can dismantle and ship by rail some of the unused facilities at CVG!

http://www.gatwickobviously.com/news...london-gatwick

I don't know how that's going to work. SEA is already choking on airplanes. 16C is supposed to reopen today, but flow delays have become the norm if you're heading there. They're also doing gate-hold proceedures when the line to the end of the runway gets too long. We had to sit over fifteen minutes loaded at the gate before they released us last week. Wx was CAVU.
They don't have enough taxiway space for all the movements, and every time a heavy needs 16L for landing preformance, well, that's the primary departure runway.
Ten years ago or so, we didn't even have a ramp control frequency, much less multiples, and now at times it's a battle to get a word in at all.

15 minutes! You've led a very sheltered life!

And I'd prefer to keep it that way! :-)