The 3 reserves got an industry worst (regionals included) 10 days off, either 3:30 am to 3:30 pm or 9:30 to 9:30 with no true consistency

The 7 lineholders got 14-17 days off with pay credit ranging from 84-99 hours. Like was previously mentioned, Des Moines has better than average pairing quality.

there was one composite. They probably got 11 days off.

What’s life like for a JR FO in LAS vs GRR? Timeline to possibly hold a line? Usage? Etc etc. Obviously this last yr is not predictive of normal ops.

I won't speculate on timelines... too difficult with small bases and coming off the furlough. However I will say that the most junior line holder in LAS is junior within the company to the most junior line holder in GRR by a month or so, so in that single respect LAS is the more junior base at this snapshot in time. That could change tomorrow if they say, added an airplane in GRR.

However, reserve in a small base isn't bad if you live there (I would never commute for this job!). Even with only 10 days off, it probably beats the junior line holder in LAS' schedule that has 7 redeye turns with 12 days off... GRR also has fewer 4 leg days than LAS. Good pairing quality out of there. Lots of long turns to places like Portland, Florida, etc. Vegas has those too but also lots of things like 9 hour duty days doing LAS RNO LAS FAT LAS or 12 hour duty days doing LAS EUG LAX EUS LAS. Not all the 4 leg trips are bad from a pay standpoint, but they're just very long days.

I think it also needs to be said that there is not a magic point of being a line holder here. Because of the seasonality of our flying, your ability to hold a line may vary throughout the year. In IWA, for example, The number of lines in a month can vary from around 25 to as many as 40. Conversely reserve and composite lines vary by as little as 4 reserve and 1 composite to as many as 8 reserves and 10 composites. I have gone from line holder to composite to reserve to TDYd out in a 4 month stretch as the seasons change.

Obviously, not all bases are that seasonal, but many are.


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Absolutely correct. The bigger threat than being pushed down to reserve is being involuntarily TDY'd month after month. Reserve isn't bad, the months where there aren't many lines reserve is usually pretty slow anyways.

I appreciate all of the insight in this thread. Lots of good info for us FNGs.

I will say it’s somewhat disconcerting to read about all of the problems with management relations and the forever-junior scenarios, however I’m still excited about the job and getting to fly the bus. Also, I think the 200 additional pilots joining this year could be enough change the dynamic somewhat for the better.

For someone coming from a regional that is known for using and abusing its reserve pilots, how would you all say the daily frustrations compare? I remember reading one thread that said their worst day at Allegiant was still better than most days at their regional.

Thanks for all the information....

Are there many 4 leg trips out of DSM?

I hear collective groaning about DSM. Why is that? The weather? lack of things to do?
is Des Moines that bad a place to live in?

With 9 openings there at DSM, I think a few of us new guys might get sent there....

It is a great city. Born and raised and have commuted my entire career. The entire DSM metro is right around 1 million now. It isn’t some tiny podunk place.

There are some large lakes around town for boating, fishing etc. Great hunting if your into that. They have added close to 75 miles of bike trails in the last 10 years.

Homes are anywhere from $150-200 in the heart of the city, Suburbs $250-350 and plenty well north of $500-1M. Whatever your looking for you’ll find.

Good schools and an overall clean and safe city. Very few rough sections and what not.

PM me for any more questions you have!

Not many if any 4 leg days in DSM.

The problem with DSM and these small bases is that in conjunction with our scheduling (lots of single days off versus a 4 on 4 off schedule at Spirit, etc), it is near impossible to commute. We are only guaranteed 6 non isolated days off, and they can be arranged as 3 sets of 2 off. Good luck with a 2 leg commute from VPS to DSM having such a schedule if you come in wanting VPS but there are no vacancies until they need to staff summer 2022 flying.

The solution is to live in base, but you may not for the first 3-6 months while waiting for your base to have some vacancies, or when you are eager to upgrade but nothing is available in base. Fine for a younger single guy or gal to move, but this lack of certainty and stability in where future growth will be and where you'll upgrade creates some problems. You may come in as a new hire in DSM, but then during your 4 or 5 years as an FO the CAs who came in to DSM get settled, buy homes, put their kids in grade school and never leave for FL, Vegas, etc even as those vacancies in more senior bases open up from retirements, etc. Just because DSM is junior now doesn't mean it will be in 5 years... 100% plan on upgrading in a base that doesn't even exist right now otherwise you may be *very* disappointed in the future. The dynamics of an 18 CA base are very different than the dynamics of a 500 or even 2000 CA base that is the case at the legacies...

The only solution for this is for the company to change their all day trips business model, or for FO pay to rise to account for the "career FO."

This statement just can’t be reiterated enough. Everyone should fully understand the day trip business model with regard to bases logistically caping out on growth. This is a young pilot group with the average retirements per year at 9 for the next decade and not significantly more than than until after 2040 . It would not surprise me at all if it takes 15-20 years for a new hire today to upgrade in one of the current bases that has no space left for growth.