captnate702

I never said we have the work rules now, I said we will get them with our next contract. That is the one thing every Allegiant pilot on this thread agrees on: our next contract will have compensation and work rules no less than the legacies. Plus, you’ll get to sleep in your bed every night…that bed will likely be in the Midwest somewhere.

Captainbfv

Alright brother, I gotta ask. You appear to be fairly well versed and articulate with your arguments, you definetly entertain some, trigger others and intrigue most. My assumption by your posts is that you are senior here at Allegiant, assuming you're still here. You appear to disdain the management, distrust the union, don't really care for the EXCO and think this place is going no were and is a waste of time. Again, this is just an obserbation based on your many many maaaany comments. We already know how you feel, but explain this, if this place is such crap and will always be substandard, then WHY are you still here?

As smart and articulate as you appear to be, you could have your pick of the litter. So again, I must ask? Why you still here? I mean, I have my own complaints and grievences, but I'll still say, this place beats the hell out of working. I've been junior here, I've been TDYed, and I've experienced my own dishearting experience, and maybe, just maybe after 6 years I might try to bounce in due time if things don't improve. I'm not going to lie to people about what to expect, or help guide them after they express their longterm goals. Just like you on some ocassions, I try to be as real as possible, but still try not to unleash all my grievences on potential candidates. So what's the deal man? Is this place really so bad that we all should leave to the point that all there's left is what use to be really senior pilots becoming junior again? Should we just continue to demand and complain internally in hopes something changes? Or do we all just get on here and tell everyone to **** off from here to stick it to the company and union?

Margaritaville

Wow lots to unpack there.

First, I won't doxx myself except to say what I've said on APC before. I'm a mid seniority CA in a central Florida base. Mid seniority used to get you a whole lot more a few years ago than it does today. I flew for Comair for many years and rode it to the ground. I was fine being a regional lifer until the rug got pulled out from under us. Worked some crap jobs then landed here. When I started it wasn't much. Got better around the time we got the contract then started back downhill pretty fast about a year after Jude left. Now, I don't see much improvement coming. Maury has stepped back from the public face and is running the company through his minions. Spite seems to play an ever increasing role in management decisions. They seem to have taken their eye off the ball in what we do best and the stock price reflects that. The pilot shortage seems to have caught them with their pants down and their only plan seems to be hoping for a recession (hope is not a strategy - great MG quote). I'm in my early 50s. Are you asking me why stay? I'd love to see this place get back on track and get back to whats we used to do best... make crap tons of money in mutually assured destruction. I really didn't think the union was run too badly before the AR reign, but we can agree to disagree on that. They did after all get us a 1st contract. And yes it sucks, because it was in fact, a first contract. The 2nd contract is way overdue but I fear the expectations are so high, and the well is so poisoned that it won't come before this place runs out of options. If this place starts to shrink, as many people believe it will, it's gonna get ugly quick. I've seen airlines enter a graveyard spiral more than once. Right now, this place is at FL350 in a 50 degree left bank and the airspeed is unreliable. If you're asking me why leave? Simple. All three legacies are offering Airbus CA upgrades in less than 3 years. That would still leave someone like me time to recoup the losses if I took first upgrade and hustle. Just look at their pay rates on the main part of this site. Mind you, they're all about to get a new contract too. I know many don't want to believe it, but going from ULCC to mainline is like when you went from Regional to Allegiant. That whole "my worst day is better than my best day" thing. The contracts are better, the money is better, better work rules, and mostly (but never always) compliance with the contracts over there. Legacy pilots seem to get a higher level of respect from their management too, not complete disdain like here. The unions are bigger, more professional, and better funded. The contracts have been around a long time. Now, with crazy hiring, it's probably the last chance for middle aged guys like you and me. But that door's gonna slam shut pretty quick.

So what did you ask me? Is it so bad that we should abandon ship and start over or is there still something to fight for? I think my posts have been pretty clear on that. Even if this place gets better, someone below the 30% seniority level in their seat isn't going to have the money and QOL we hoped for here. At a place like American with stupid fast movement, I think that is possible, especially in a junior base like MIA. Could you recoup the 3 year pay hit? That depends. Throughout my career my crystal ball has sucked, so maybe I'm not the guy to ask, but if you're asking me anyway, am I willing to take that chance, then the answer is... yeah.

If you were seriously looking for advice, then I'd have to say keep yourself out of Facebook Jail more than a week and buy a new suit. Also research what legacy you think you'd fit in at and where you would want to move the family or could commute from your coastal town. But I'd sure hate to see a great pilot spin their wheels here for another 5 years waiting for improvements that won't come, and miss their last chance. Don't get Comair'd.

As for guys looking to come here, plan to live in a small base and keep your options open. If you have more than a decade left in your career, ask yourself what you think this company will look like in 10 years compared to other airlines. If the answer isn't good, then look elsewhere. If you've got 20 or more years left, get your butt to a legacy while you can.

Captainbfv

Good deal mayng. Appreciate the response, was just trying to make sense of what the deal was, wasn't looking for advice either lol. I've gotten Comeair'd 3 times in the corporate sector, so I know exactly what that's like. I got about 23 years left of my career, but of course just like you my magic eight ball never really worked. What I do have is enough experience through two down turns and I learned I don't wanna be junior when everything is so volitile. If I would've toned out the negative captains from two other regionals I worked at I would have flowed to two of the Legacies. But what can I say, I was much younger and didn't really know that sometimes you just have to gut it out just a bit longer.
So for me, kinda like you I'm not holding my breath for anything stellar anytime soon, but I do think we will get something much more competative and palitable. Just a matter of time.

As far as staying out of facebook jail? Well that gets tougher and tougher, especially when Zuckerberg keeps scrolling past my timeline. Absolutely biased and NOOOO sense of humor from silicone valley.

JediCheese

I've highlighted the issue. The critical word is will. That's not the same as have.

The company needs pilots. The Union needs a great contract. A segment of management hates pilots and doesn't realize that it's a pilot's market right now. No need to volunteer at the local animal shelter or habitat for humanity and join every <insert minority> pilot's association to get an interview at a legacy.

I will say I got in front of a legacy recruiter at a meet and greet lately. The recruiter was practically salivating over my resume (1000TPIC + A320 type). I will say that the fact that Allegiant isn't a bad place to be (the QoL is amazing) made it stress free. Plus instead of reeking of desperation when I was at a regional, I was able to have an air of 'you need me more than I need you'.

SloNLow

And we have a BINGO!!! That pretty much sums it up.

MooseDog

Hello There,

I received an invite to the interview and I have some questions before I get too excited. I live near TYS and I was wondering how long a new hire could expect to be able to hold that base? Based of some of the posts I read here I saw that some folks have been here about 9 months or so and were still a few months away from holding TYS or BNA. Does that sound accurate? Also, how many pilots are in TYS, is it a fairly large and productive base?

Thanks!

flydiamond

Yes that’s accurate. On the junior end of the list, TYS is tied with PIT for “most senior junior fo.” That junior fo has been here one year now. So plan 9 months minimum commuting, which is next to impossible here as you will be 2 leg commuting to FNT with 10-12 days off.

edit: the recent vacancy award has a July 2021 hire being awarded TYS effective Jan 31, 2023 (he was the only award) so the base is trending even more senior.

MooseDog

Thanks for the info. I could probably deal with that for a year or more, especially if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I really appreciate the detailed response.

tailendcharlie

If you haven’t already, best spend an hour or two plowing through the Allegiant threads. Lot of things are potentially in flux here…..consider carefully before making life decisions based on the continued existence of an Allegiant small base.