Thinking of Allegiant?
 

Just a word to the wise. Next schedule allows a total of 2 days at home. Yes, you read it right, 2 days at home for the entire month. Oh, and I almost forgot, no I'm not TDY, VBD, etc, just an average 5 yr capt. My commute home is less than a two hr flight on any number of airlines. But, since the schedule is manipulated at AAY, they put single days off for all but 2 times, and the 2 times there are more than one day off (read 2 days off in a row), they make sure your schedule prior to your day off ends after the last flight out, which ensures you won't get home. Oh yes, also, they make sure if you do get home, you'll need to turn right back around because your next trip begins at 6am, so you need to get there the night before.

Again, a 5 yr capt with 2 total days at home for the entire month who lives within a 2 hr commute type flight. But hey, SH, GB, MG, etc say they are trying to make this a great place to work, and those rotten pilots are asking for too much. I wonder how many days management gets to be home?

Remember if you are looking at coming to G4; if they promote the "home every night" statement, they are simply saying that you won't be in a hotel; you'll just be somewhere that you must call home because Allegiant isn't keeping you in a hotel!

You seem unwell.

Better take care of that.

Hope you feel better.

Would you be home every night if you lived in base


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Where do you live and where are you based? It's a known thing that this is not a commutable airline. I've had guys ask about coming here and told them they need to be prepared to move to their base or never plan to be home. Has this changed in 5 years?

I have always told people that are interested in Allegiant that this is not an airline that you can commute to. If you live in one of the bases, or are willing to move to one of the bases than life isn't too bad. (Depending on what your definition of not to bad is, I suppose). But, if you want to commute than this will be the worst place that you could ever be at. Your schedule is the big reason why I tell people this.

Everyone out there, do NOT come to Allegiant expecting to commute! I live in base and see my family a lot. If you come to Allegiant, MOVE TO YOUR ASSIGNED BASE!

I live in base and the single days off don't allow for travel without bidding vacation.

I'm maxxed out on PTO accrual and get three weeks vacation a year... as long as I never call in sick or request a day off. Then it eats into your PTO/vacation allotment. One sick call on a 7 hour day takes almost two months to make up.

Just another thing to consider.

Hey guys; I'm just trying to advise the "home every night" is a false premise to come here on. I know, I know......just move to your base and everything is fine. Oh wait; I'll move to Laughlin, ok things are great (oops, that base is closed); how about Grand Rapids, I'll move there! ( oops, that base closed too), ok, Los Angeles a major USA city and hub, I'll move there (oops, another base closure), well then Tunica (nope, also closed), ok Wendover (not for long....closing now).

So to tell new hires, or anyone else for that matter, just live in base.......it only works if you want to rely on MG, SH, etc keeping your base open! Take a look, from minor middle of nowhere to major U.S. Cities, G4 will open and close bases each and every year. Yes, SFB, IWA, and LAS are probably safe. Any other base I wouldn't necessarily be convinced is going to stay operational.

I'm just putting it out there that a 2 hr commute isn't even commutable at G4. I'd like to see scheduling as a major issue for everyone in the contract (stalled) negotiations. You can only promote "live in base" if your base stays open!(Oops, another gaff.....apparently our negotiations are moving along quite well according to the propaganda management is issuing)

True, I would say "home every night" needs and asterisk. If you're going to move to smaller based like AVL or BLI I wouldn't count on them being open forever. Florida and Vegas are safe bets so if you want to live in those places I would say Allegiant is a place to consider. Outside of that I think it's a crapshoot. Good things to point out to the regional guys considering coming here.

How long for a new hire to hold LAS?

Plenty get it out of training on the 80. For the 75, never.

I was talking to a US airways captain who is about to retire. He commuted half his career. He could have not commuted for the rest of his career and lived in base, but would have moved his family 9 times throughout his career every time a base closed and/or he got displaced.

There might be two or three bases mentioned that might be “Safe”. As we know smaller bases and even some larger ones are very fluid; Wendover, Laughlin, Grand Rapids, Los Angeles,.. Allegiant management's second favorite phrase next to, “If you don't like it leave”, is “Well you just need to move to your base” . Then they close it and/or get rid of the airplane. Bless their bonus loving hearts.

Word is the 757 and hence etops is going away faster than previously mentioned. That means the HNL pilots living in hawaii are about to get displaced, and the LAS 757 pilot(s) will be sent where? There’s no contractual provision for bump and flush, it's whatever management dictates, and where will that be? VBD? LAS? SFB?

The fact is this company opens and closes bases at will however they want with no regard to the pilots. It is a wise consideration taking into account single days off. No contractual minimum days off is a problem, unlike our “Peers”, Frontier and Spirit’s contractual minimum days off standard not to be one. So, you may get away with living in base and be insulated from the single day off schedules we have in abundance at g4, but for how long?

D-E-L-T-A Air liiiiines

/thread

5 year Captain? Ooooooh. Must be tough. Want to talk to some 20 yr FOs and see what they think of the sand in your vag?

Waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Uh, no!! I Proudly served our great nation as a volunteer (ie not drafted) for a citizenry that has helped you sleep soundly at night free from harm! (You're welcome)
I have over 20 years flying any number of aircraft, and no.....this isn't my first rodeo. I'm simply stating the 5 year mark so a potential new hire will know what to expect if he hears the home every night sales pitch. I'm here for the long haul, are you? Did my post offend you? Does the reality of G4 needing to amend and advance a QOL for the pilots disturb you? Maybe informing applicants was my goal. Apparently yours was to attack the message, to place a cloud on reality here at G4.

5?? Have a friend hired there a tad over a year ago who just completed CA upgrade. Sounds dangerous to me...upgrading an ex mil (non 121) guy to the left seat after 500 hrs in the right...

I personally appreciate the insight. It's good to know what is actually happening to people flying the line.
That being said, I absolutely knew that Allegiant was a terrible place to work if you did not live in domicile. I knew that when I applied six years ago. From what I can tell, nothing has changed. I'm not sure why you are so surprised.
I get that it sucks... But again, it is known.
Maybe now it will be more known.
Allegiant IS NOT commutable!!!!!

Way to pat yourself on the back. You're not the only one that served. Most of us just don't go around looking for accolades.

There are many other airlines hiring right now. Go to one please.

Sounds to me like if ya have been to more than one rodeo, have 20 yrs of flying experience, you may have f¥cked up when you picked Allegient to work for. Maybe you should re-evaluate how all those rodeo experiences led you to Allegient.

It's common knowledge that Allegient is a live in base airline. been that way since the early 2000's

Disco! Would you like it if no information regarding true G4 life was not available? If so....I'll simply invite you to leave. You are the constant negative attack artist. No, I'm not looking for any pat on the back. I was attacked for referring to my 5 years at G4. I simply stated information for clarity. I'm not new, I have a little life experience, and I want new hires/applicants to know the "home every night" is false! I also didn't cry about it with my vag! I'm simply stating fact. Home every night is no longer true at G4! New hires/applicants should know about this.

What 20 year FO's?

I concur bro. In my best deceitful, insincere Allegiant mangagement christmas bonus, stock option(s) loving, and/or rich fordharrison lawyer pilot hating voice;

“Gordo if you don't like it, then leave!”:D


Or dude, just strategically schedule a bonafide “procedure”, during how shall we say an inopportune time..Happy holidays.;)

No longer? This implies this is a change. 5 years is actually quite long compared to many of the management guys. But my understanding is that it has been this way from day 1. And ask guys at United and Delta, bases grow, shrink and close. It's part of the business. Go to those and enjoy your EWR or LGA commute and being gone 20 days every month until you're 10 years in to hold a good line. By then the wife has raised the kids without you and they don't even know you. I'll pass and take my chances on this airline getting its **** together while I live in the exact place I want to live.

No dog in this fight... But after bltching like that, and the experience you have, why in the name would you be in it for the long haul?
You'll more than make up the difference in pay and QOL in a few years elsewhere assuming your hirable.

Was it ever true for commuters?

It doesn't pay to argue. We have 20 yr FOs who like to bit#$ that they chose the wrong airline. I'm no supporter (or employee) of Allegiant but it's lame for those to whine to the 1-5 year Allegiant CA about their 20 year FO gig elsewhere. If they wanted the 12 month upgrade then leave American and go to Allegiant and take the utter BS they're offering....or shut up.

Whoa? What? You commute and your not home every night????? How is that possible?? And Allegiant doesn't pay for your hotel when you are a commuter?
New hires beware!!!!!!

I was kinda wondering the same thing. There are plenty of legitimate complaints about G4, but the fact that one can't be "home every night" as a commuter is just common sense...at any airline; especially Allegiant.


Gordo, you made good points about:

-single days off
-early reports/late finishes at the beginning and end of a sequence
-the company's reported manual manipulation of monthly awards
-the lack of blocks of multiple days off disallowing pilots use of travel benefits

These are real reasons to warn prospective new-hires. It is information that should be passed on, let's not dilute it with carping about the lack of the impossible.

Thank you for quite frankly summarizing my main point. Just here to start a discussion, and I guess it worked! Anyway, you got the main point of my rant. Thanks!

I find this thread confusing. Nobody comes to allegiant as a career stop right? You get your airbus type rating and move on to the big three or a lcc right? Allegiant is not even an airline. You put your time in here or at a regional right? I just don't see what all the fuss is, maybe us outsiders aren't seeing the big picture or something.

You can also just not upgrade.......doesn't take long to be a relatively senior FO at Allegiant (West coast excepted). Doesn't mean it'll be commutable but won't be nearly as bad as junior captain.

Of course that assumes you actually want to stick around and aren't here soley for the Type & PIC...

It's really this kind of logic that lets ALG mgmt off the hook. They seem to truly want to run ALG as a regional airline where the pilots accept sub standard pay and working conditions for the future expectation of moving on to bigger and better. Thereby keeping pilots young, gullible and full of hope without any longevity or future at ALG. All the time mgmt will be cashing in personally while short cutting the mx and trng program as much as the FAA will allow them to get away with.:eek:

Management's mantra now is if you don't like it leave. They are adamant now on the Peter Pan pilot; no kids, no wife and unencumbered. Got me in the VBD no problem. Big problem, these aren't RJs. Whether we stay or go, this toxin of Gallagher will infect your dream airline. So, if we are here let's make their lives hell with a contract that respects the profession.

I suspect you'll need at least 2 more contracts till you can be on par with a spirit or JetBlue etc.. based on the type of expectations they are laying out on G4pilots.com. I was only saying it's hard for a pilot in the market to seriously consider allegiant. If allegiant management can't be bothered to treat their own company well with quality maintenance and employee treatment, I'm not sure how they can expect people to want to come and work there and be anything other than an airbus type rating revolving door. Maybe when the hiring starts picking up they'll figure out how to compete.

I can come to no other conclusion that management wants a pilot in and out of there in 5 years. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's hard to come to any other conclusion when the pay, retirement and healthcare are so terrible. I listened to the union conference call and was disappointed to hear we are still negotiating for below industry standard. I can only hope spirit and others get their TA approved before were done negotiating. There have been improvements made in the training department but they are small ones. Considering how much they want to grow in the next five years they really need to step up.

I just don't understand the argument? Although I don't want to actually trade years of my life away, a 20 year Legacy FO makes about the same money and has a much better QOL than a 5 year G4 CA. The only exception possibly being the old US Airways guys, though in the last 2-3 years there has been a lot of potential for movement with all the retirements over there.

A 20 year G4 FO? Well there is no such thing since we haven't been around that long, but an 18 year FO here could easily bid the left seat on any aircraft. He/she would probably be the most senior person in all of FL and in the top couple bidders in every base out west. Although underpaid, he/she would be topped out at 97/hr, definitely weak compared to our legacy counterparts, but not exactly on food stamps either.

So again, I don't see why a bitter 5 year G4 CA would offend them? And yes, if you are a 5 yr CA out west in LAS or IWA you still don't hold enough seniority to always avoid RSV or the Florida TDY. I flew with a couple of them down here in Florida.

Actually, as someone who as left Allegiant for one of those legacy carriers, let me correct your statement.

I've been at the current legacy for just under a year. I work anywhere from 9-15 days a month, either as a line holder or on reserve. Yes, I do commute, because I have no desire to live in my base, but I can freely trade trips/reserve days and drop trips. I get anywhere from two days to two weeks off at a time. I have NEVER had a single day off, at least so far, and don't expect I ever will.

I left Allegiant as an almost 10 year captain. I was still almost involuntarily TDY'd the the last month I was there. At my current carrier, when they offer TDY, people bid for it. The don't force people to go where they don't want to be.

Yes, I took a pay cut the first year. However, by early in to my second year, I will make as much as a second year FO as I was making as a 10 year captain there. And, I work about 1/3 as hard. I fly new, or nearly new airplanes, that the mechanics actually fix. I haven't had any serious mechanical problems, no engine failures, and, best of all, I have never had to declare an emergency in my time so far, unlike the once a week time at Allegiant.

The best part is, I get treated like a real person, my family has actual insurance again, and there is a really good retirement plan. Oh, and depending on what they do for aircraft orders, I could be a captain again in 3-4 years if I want to be. Or maybe less. Or, I could work six days a month as a senior FO. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Thanks for that, a lot of guys don't realize that life at a Legacy is more than min contractual days off and hourly pay multiplied by 75 hours a month. I have a couple friends/acquaintances over at DL and they routinely go 2-3 weeks without ever seeing the airport or an airplane. I tend not to ask about pay but my buddy that Hawks open time (I think it's called green slip flying?) said he doesn't have a problem clearing 110 credit every month.

Must be nice.

FWIW I've been at a major 2.5 years and average 17 days off a month. At 60% in base and seat I have 17 days off in a row in November. I've had 85 hr, 19 day off months. I've flown anywhere from 80-105 hrs a month. Not sure where fishforfun is getting 10 years and never seeing our kids. My wife just about kicks me out the door when it's time to go back to work.

Not an argument against Allegiant. If you're happy there by all means stay. Just get the facts straight.

What legacy has upgrades in 4 years and getting more and 20 days off a month? This is very different from all I have seen from everyone I know at the legacies.