3/7 Newhire Class: Aircraft and Base
 

A big congratulations and welcome to all of those starting class..especially to the Eagle flows hired in the early summer of 2001 who are *finally* coming over.

6 PHL/FO/320/I
25 LGA/FO/320/D
7 MIA/FO/737/D

Just talked to a guy in this class. They changed the PHL 320's to 190's this afternoon.

I'd count on 6 190's per class until they park them.

I'm amazed we haven't seen a new order for 100 seaters-given the pay rates.

It's coming, no doubt in my mind. They are just still in the process of coming up with something to extract from us in exchange for that "shiny carrot."

Don't see it. I just learned we're scoped out on 76 seaters but ALL of the 50 seaters can be swapped for 66 seaters (crj 700s). Expect them to convert a lot of the 50s to 700s and the smallest at mainline will be the 319.

The pilot pay rate is not much of a factor in the decision. It's MUCH cheaper for them to run more, bigger RJs than to expand the mainline fleet. Now replace 319s with group 1s? They may do that. Careful what you wish for.

They will have a huge gap between the 76 seaters and the A319. That is not sustainable when the competition (UA, DL) are both running 100 seaters. AA needs a 100-seater and mark my words, they will use it as a bargaining chip. It's been the same song & dance show for decades and it won't change.

If the 100 seater pay was that of DL 717 I wouldn't be against it. However the E190 second year pay is wAAy too low.
Honestly though DL and UA plan is too fly less commuters and more mainline. I think we can compete if our wholly owned regional aircraft continue to fly 700/900's. In 10 years I can see the only regionals left being AA wholly owned and maybe a couple others. I bet DL will have cut their regional flying in half with all the 100 sweaters they are buying for ML.
I could be wrong though.

Hard for me to tell which way this will go. We do have a lot of old airbuses which could continue flying-but that does leave a pretty big gap in seat capacity. I think if mgmt were smart, they would jump on some super-efficient C-series planes and take advantage of the fuel savings and the low pay rate. Of course, I have come to the conclusion that this mgmt. doesn't give a crap about the long-term health of the airline.

Doug and his buds just want to spend all our profits on stock buy backs that never work-but who cares, when your make millions on the 20 cents per share jump that 10 billion in buybacks gets?

I've stayed optimistic about mgmt as long as I can... But these guys are awful. They simply must be replaced. These buybacks are incredibly irresponsible and just put our airline in a continually weaker position.

WHEN they order the 100-seater they will most likely try to extract concessions from us in exchange for DL/UA 100-seat rates. That's where we have to stand strong and say NO CONCESSIONS. And make no mistake, they will insist that they don't have to order it if we don't agree...that's also BS, as Delta demonstrated when they tried to tie their 100-seat order to concessions. They still ordered it AND their pilots got what they wanted.

3/7 Newhire Class: Aircraft and Base
 

I fully expect a 100 seat order will only be used as a bargaining chip IF one is ever made. Management could care less about the seat gap between the 175 and the 319. If they did they could have ordered a couple hundred more e190s by now.

A couple things worry me about a potential group 1 order.
-if an order is announced the pilot group will get all angry bc the pay is too low. Good point but if these are growth aircraft and not g2 replacements then that is fine by me. We can try and make up the pay in 2020.
-if management comes out and says we will order these planes but then they plan to park g2 planes that should be a no-go.

I personally think we won't have to worry about this. Parker and co have made it clear the 100 seater doesn't make economic sense at mainline in their view. They'll continue with 76 seaters and 319 where DL flies 717s and CS100s.

Plus come 2020 they're going to pull all sorts of old trick plays out of the playbook to get us distracted and even more fragmented. We're going to have our hands full. It's sure going to be interesting.

United just signed AWAC to fly 65 50 Seaters.:D And now they want CommutAir to operate up to 60.

Or a big Carrot Pay raise to all those here with all the retirements coming in exchange for the WO's to fly the 100 seat jets.

3/7 Newhire Class: Aircraft and Base
 

Yep. They'd love nothing more than 100 seaters at the regionals. The old guys near retirement would probably be all for it like slice and Route66. Our only chance if that happens is for the BOD to not send it out for a vote.

All it would take for a TA to pass with 100 seaters at the regionals would be DL plus a couple percent and maybe a token slash trip or some other QOL fix. It'd pass 60-40 easy.

Just got a pic from a friend of a 190 he's in. There putting new interiors in the 190s? Strange.

Someone just posted at pic on belowtheline. Looks like the AB319 new interior.

Yep, I agree!

They've been doing that for a while now. Paint and interior are regularly scheduled maintenance items. When they're due to be replaced, they replace them. Don't read too much into it.

The problem as I see it with group 1 is that while the pay scales are attractive for the company, growing group 1 creates a perpetual training bubble. Even with only 20 in the fleet, the turnover is high. With a more sizable fleet of group 1 airplanes, the movement at the top will dictate that guys will be able to bid to group 2 by year 2. Any cost savings the company might have gained from those pay scales is washed away in training cycle costs. I say that if they come selling higher group 1 pay in the next round in exchange for something else, we shouldn't give them back anything more than those greasy biscuits on our breakfast plates, because it'll benefit them too.

Well that is because our AA guy went there and is changing their gameplan then. When I went through training there in Oct 15 they said they were moving away from Regional aircraft but it looks like that has changed.

Not with my vote.

School house is budgeted to run at 100% at all times. Doesn't matter

Exactly. Not a slight to lucky but pilots tend to over exaggerate our costs to the company. If they cared about training bubbles they wouldn't have 4 different pay bands.

Unfortunately a majority of our guys don't feel the same way. If a TA comes out with massive pay raises in exchange for relaxing scope rules I have no faith in this pilot group to turn it down.

Our WO's are paying guys in the right seat $60k to start. Compare that to $70k in the 190/AB.

The Dash 8 CAs are making upwards of $130k with their overrides and triple premium pay...that is a 30 seat airplane!!!

They can pay less at mainline on the smaller planes and have ZERO issues with recruiting...in fact I'm kinda surprised the company hasn't approached us to ask for a 76 and below wage of the current RJ rates with a long term non-negotiable rate lock.

After all people are going to Frontier with their $35/hr starting wage. Lots of pre-merger guys came to Airways with the same starting wage.

Labor costs are no longer in play, now it's who pays the most that gets the pilots. Incredible turn of events in just a year.

True but the problem with cheap mainline pilots is they also come with mainline FAs, gate agents, mechanics, rampers, dispatchers, management, instructors, etc. who all have mainline benefits, work rules and pay rates. Even if we could pay pilots less than the regionals it would be cheaper to operate them there.

Don't get me wrong I want all the mainline flying we can get, it's just there's a lot more going on which we forget sometimes.

Do they hand out the aircraft/bases on day 1?
Is class seniority based on age?

You left United to come to AA?

Yes I did. I left after two months at United.

You pick from what is available at the end of day 2 in seniority order.

Seniority is by age.

I think many folks here at AA underestimate the fact that, to a pilot trying to break in to the Big 3, any pilot position within the Big 3 tend to be viewed as pretty similar. While UAL has the best pay today, DAL has the best culture and AA has some of the best bases...these things can and will change with each cycle. So, it's perfectly understandable that a newly hired pilot at the Big 3 may very well leave for another within the first year or two, most likely for base or seniority reasons.

We here at AA are obviously under a lot of angst with the current climate between management and labor...as such, if we don't stop and think for a second, we tend to respond with awe when we hear that someone left UAL or DAL to come here. But the above applies, simply due to the fact that, in the end, an AA pilot job is still a dang good job at one of the Big 3. And we need to realize that our time will come when an AA pilot contract will lead the industry (its up to us!)

In any case, welcome to AA!

AA73 very well put!! Your two reasons "bases and seniority" is EXACTLY why I left. United training and culture was top-notch while I was there, very hard to leave and not one complaint. In the end my family wanted to live in DFW or CLT and I would break 500 at AA and around 900 at UA in seniority. Given the fact that UA has more WB for now it's about a wash but it came down to bases. Also when I was there in 2015 UA had not done too well financially compared to AA or DL so that worried me thinking they had been out of bankruptcy longer than AA and yet AA was still making more profit per qtr. However, now UA is doing great so you never know. I am happy with my decision but I won't ever really know until the day I retire. One bankruptcy at either one will swing that decision very quickly!!!

was it because of bases?

Bases and retirements.

How long does it typically take a LGA 320/D FO to hold PHL 320? I assume PHL is the next most JR base, and it would be much more practical on first year pay for a guy looking to sit reserve at home, and is able to relocate.

You'll likely get it while still in training. Only issue is D to I, not sure how that's working out.

I'll jump in before someone asks. Domestic to International.

Delete.........

If you're asking, yes, that is what he is talking about. LUS bases are all I. LAA bases have D and I but it is going away. Everyone will be I some time down the road.