That's what the 757 PHX guys had at lil' old AWA. Why not here at AA?

Just flew one... weirdly enough I liked it better than any other combo. Can't figure out why a commuter didn't snatch it up. Show at 1800 first day. Five legs total and back to CLT on day 4 by 6 am. A commuters dream I would think.

Because now it's not "lil' old AWA" at PHX or "lil' old AA" at LAX flying 757's that really didn't have much scheduling opportunities to efficiently fly a 757 on a tag leg and keep the crews under 8 hours of flying.

It's now the "Borg" with the Airbus flying to Hawaii, a much larger combined system out west and having the ability to schedule a crew for additional shorter legs on the 319 or 320 on 9 hours of flight time opens things up quite a bit.

My prediction it will be a sideways move at best.

Yes, I agree those changes open up options in scheduling crews, but that's not what destroyed the PHX 757 flying, and it's not what's keeping the Hawaii flying from being decent out of LAX. The APA gave away min calendar guarantee. Those trips in PHX went from great to garbage in PHX with the loss of an industry standard contract item. There was no aircraft change, no change to PBS, just one thing, loss of min calendar day. Why don't Delta and United trips out of LAX and SFO suck like ours? You guessed it, their trip and rigs aka min calendar day are better than ours. It could be worse though. Alaskas duty and rigs suck as bad as ours and you're flying in a 737 cockpit doing your red eye to/from Hawaii. 😬 The good thing is that the APA knows we need it back and the guys in there aren't all the same self serving bone heads that gave it away.

What is the latest rumor on LTD?
Same 8%, or a total overhaul and a better package?

We'll see. Agree that in the short term, PHX trips like that went to chit to match the LAX garbage. Not sure if DL, UA and others are getting the 15 for 2 leg 3-days. I've heard some guys say they combine them into crappy 4 or 5 day ones.

Not sure how reputable the source, but take a look...

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1410...ay-raises.html

...and the follow up...

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1410...lines-pay.html

False comment on the UAL and DAL flying. They may be combined into a 4 day, but, not always and they don't suck any worse then a 3 day Hawaii.

Ex....from my UAL friends trip

SFO-DEN-LAX (Day 1)
LAX-OGG(Day 2)
Layover (Day 3)
OGG-SFO (Day 4)

Not awful at all, for 4 days of pay. 4 legs, long layover, one red eye, home early last day. We fly far far worse 4 days



He also says he gets around 16-17 hours for a 3 day. Yes they have min calendar around 5, but their actual block times (on top of the min calendar day they are away from home on long layover, at the beach...) takes them over. My friends at UAL and DAL don't laugh at us on this issue, they pity us.


People are still in denial about how bad this JCBA is, how bad many where hood-winked. Min Calendar Day is by far the worst work rule give up in it. Schedules, pay, days off, all ride in it. Min duty period is worthless with out a min day as the foundation. If they APA gets min calendar day back, it would be a huge win

Put it this way, the 757 flying out of PHX to Hawaii , the Bus Hawaii flying out of LAX, the mid range SA flying out of MIA are all some the worst flying in our system in terms of pay and QOL. With min calendar day....they would become some of the best.

These articles from the street should just be called the "Ted Reed's". It's like a blog at this point. I miss the Dallas "reporter", not a "contributor" like this guy, who covered AA.

It's going to be even harder to get LTD improvement and min calendar day after Wall Streets reaction. Kudos to Parker for taking a stand. Herb probably would have told them to go $&(! themselves. Not all Wall Street types are scum bags, but these guys are embarrassing. No wonder far out politicians like Bernie Sanders are gaining momentum.

Let's be clear. Min calendar day has not been in any contract since I have been here. We have been living it since at least 1997 contract. Our contract has been a schedule nightmare for a long time.

most don't know any better because they never worked at another airline. Some don't have to do them so they don't know or care that we have them.

I once worked 23 days in one month doing 10 hr. three day trips JFK to BDA. Nice in May. Not so nice in January. Rainy, windy and $25 hamburgers. Let's hope it changes.

Will this apply to Year 1 pay also?

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Yes. Year one will be $85 starting 5/2 then $88 in January.

What is LTD? Mil guy, don't have my decoded ring yet.

Long term disability.

Thanks drinksonme, good to hear some actual facts over the random stuff I've heard.

I'm well aware of the crap 3 calendar day for 2 days of pay, eaten them for two+ decades. Hopefully some adult analysis will rule the day.

I personally think we will get "min calendar day" because they are competing against UA and DL for new hire pilots. Sure they have 5k applicants on file but imagine how bad it screws them when they have 6-9 pilots no show Indoc or leave shortly after training because they got hired at UA or DL. It's happening but for all different reasons but I think we will have it within 12 months personally. But it's just a guess. I'm an optimist but I'm also a second year hire;)

Do we have many no shows?


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Cheddar,

My indoc was last October, there was a guy that showed up at day 1 and half way through walked out and reported to Delta Indoc a few days later. That is the only one I have heard of, or seen.
I don't think he was left based on the terms of our contract or anything like that. Take it for what it's worth.

OVB

Is there a chart with the new proposed hourly rates?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5d757449ed.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cbc7ecd6ff.png

There have been several who have left for Delta during Indoc. I'm sure many others left during training and year one.

Thanks!.....

Is there another Group (maybe V?) that got cut off? Any chance of posting that, too?


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Group V is 747/380.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cc8e49ea73.png

Gotcha. Thanks.


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I wish the 321would be group 3.

My buddy got offers from AA and DAL at the same time and kept deferring his AA class date until DAL finally gave him an official class date. This was about a month ago...so yes it does happen in some form or the other.

Leaving
 

A guy in my new hire class left for FedEx after being here for 2.5 years. I think many are leaving, both at the top and bottom. Now, if we could get some of those at the top, who have never been furloughed and have been senior their entire career to retire a year or two early, we'd have unbelievable leverage.

Saw this shared on the RST American Facebook group. Someone willing to call out the Wall St. analysts...

Wall Street's grousing about American Airlines' worker raises shows what's wrong with Wall Street - LA Times

Parker just doesn't get it. Why go half way? He should have made the American pilots the highest paid across the board. Especially given the much larger profit sharing at UAL and Delta.

Yeah people leave all of the majors for others. FedEx had 10-12 no show a recent new hire class.

I have a buddy who is a new hire at AA and will leave if UA calls him only because Denver is a domicile. But I know guys who left UA and DL for AA too so it's a wash really.

Still, after having friends at AA and following their mgmt/labor travails for the last 20 years, I thought I would NEVER see the day that AA mgmt gave the pilots a unrequited raise outside of section 6 / threat of strike.

Truly interesting times in AA mgmt/labor relations.;)

I think someone in crew planning is getting concerned that the compensation gap might put AA behind the 8-ball in the coming years regarding staffing...so better to head the problem off now than to have Section 6 going on as the retirements really take off...

Also, we are an extremely old group. Many here have met the number they need to retire. The optimizer is literally exhausting guys. I think
Management is realizing if they don't do something, Captains may just retire. Early retirements cost a lot more than a new hire leaving within a few years of getting hired. I would expect to see improved work rules soon...

I'm really hoping to see a calendar day/long rig improvement in the next couple months. I'm guessing it will be announced mid summer to be implemented in the fall. Gotta keep those efficient(for the company) work rules in place during the high season lol.

I think DP and his group knew at some point they'd have to throw us a bone, the smallest necessary to keep things relatively stable. This will buy him some time but not much more. Unlike a previous post, I do not think most guys will retire early because they are financially in no position to do so. I also think 8% is too little too late. We are not at the industry standard and 2020 is too far away. So if AA is competing for passengers and pilots, they need to do much better IMO.

One less thing to negotiate when section 6 starts.

It's a start. Min calendar day and LTD fixes coming soon as well.

DP knows he needs to up the ante here at AA if he doesn't want an even worse hiring crunch.

If any Rep votes no on this today they should be recalled immediately.

Do you really want someone who will turn down free, no-strings attached money to be involved in the next contract?