Avg Calendar Day, LOS approved
 

Effective 8/31/18

*****Fellow Pilots,

After a series of expedited discussions, we are pleased to announce that the company and APA have reached an agreement regarding the following items:

An increase in minimum pay and credit while on duty from Duty Day to Calendar Day
Length of Service (LOS) restoration for pilots furloughed after 9/11
Resolution of a number of disputes and grievances relating to the filling of open time and a mutual path forward toward DOTC/RAS
The agreement is subject to approval by the APA Board of Directors and will be considered in the coming days. We know that you will likely have questions after reviewing the summary available here and we will be providing additional details soon.

Thank you for what you do every day as we work together to ensure our passengers have a safe and reliable travel experience on our airline. We wish you and your families all the best.

Hopefully this makes for a big vacancy bid this summer[emoji851]

The Devil is in the details:

LOS retroactive to June 1, 2017...

Avg Calendar Day effective August 31,2018...

Summer flying is already programmed. I don't consider it unreasonable that the company would want to implement this later in the year.

I'm more concerned what (if anything) we gave up. Hopefully the CLT blast was not true

We will see.

Still has to be voted in by BOD


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Therein lies the rub. Never underestimate the BOD's ability to completely F this up!

But yet they blame marketing on not being able to get us bidding on skeds sooner than 2 weeks out.

F what up???? This whole thing is a joke and is already f’d up! I wouldn’t mind at all if they said shove it.

Cue the it’s more than we had idiots—

I’d wait to see what APA gave for all of this.

Yes, I’m concerned about the last bullet:

“Resolution of a number of disputes and grievances relating to the filling of open time and a mutual path forward toward DOTC/RAS”

Cite the specific reasons. What did we give up? Be super specific because it’s better than we had. Granted maybe they gave up too much, which is why you need to be very specific on the details but.....

Call me an idiot.

Gotta agree... cautiously optimistic. I’m hoping the CLT blast changed the underlying “gives”. I’d like to see fine print but just dismissing it outright seems a bit foolish. Apparently no rush to pass. The BOD has time to actually read and debate the details since MCD is 9 months away and LOS is retro to last summer.

I don’t think this is one of those bills we need to “pass to see what’s in it”

Not real happy about the 9 month free pass to the company. If they really wanted to implement this it could have been done by doing pay/no credit until the training and IT issues were resolved.

I understand that this may cause a staffing shortage of about 150 pilots needed to fly the extra hours imposed by the new rig. By keeping the present hours and paying us the difference via PNC the company could stay on the timetable announced for full,implementation yet compensate us for the woeful contract we are under. I understand why were are here, I’d just like to see us move past as quickly as possible.

I have my doubts about that. I say it’s more likely a one for one no additional bodies needed. Think about all the trips that they won’t need reserves for anymore... this makes it worth leaving the house.

Time will tell

I doubt this will require more bodies after the optimizer gets done. They probably need the time to qualify East Coast bases for Hawaii.

And run the displacements out of LAX/PHX to the bases where the Hawaii flying is going to wind up...

CLT-LAX-HNL-LAX-CLT or PHL-PHX-HNL-PHX-PHL...mighty efficient.

Or cue the folks that take this as having to use less negotiating capital to get it in the next contract thus freeing up capital to work on further improvements to things we now have, those idiots? Hmmm, profit sharing, 8% bump and avg day credit in the last year, I’d say we’ve done better than expected. Given that APA agreed to this huge pile of sh!t with a cost neutral arbitration as a back stop, we’ve done pretty well.

Idiot...[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

We're going to have to use negotiating capital to fix this because AVG calendar day and a concession for electronic notification isn't what we want.

Mover

Would you rather stick with what we had? 3 day 11 hour trips. You do realize we are not in section 6? I think APA has done a hell of a good job making meaningful gains outside of section 6. Point to any other airline who has done as much outside of negotiations.

The LOS deal is going to require additional manpower. Lots of pilots are going to get an extra week or so of vacation starting in 2019.

If it involves any concessions or IOUs, I'd rather not.

The devil is in the details.

What would you rather have besides average calendar day? Of course minimum would be better but there’s no way we would get that.

Why not? That's the kind of attitude that creates a weak and feckless union.

I'd prefer a better F time rig above anything, but a min + F time would be ideal.

We won’t get a min day bc we aren’t in section 6 and no one else besides SWA has a true min day. That’s not being weak that’s being realistic.

Didn’t APA test better F time and conclude an average calendar day was better?

Language is out.

1 for 1.5 duty rig for odarkthirty flying

5+15 Rig implemented by September, unless vacation float is under 30%, then they can delay to january 2019. They will pay 1 million penalty month one and 1.5 million each month after.

Check airman adjusted to maintain 11 minute premium.

LOS resolved, and shall accrue for any future furloughs.

Give up all claims to open time grievances, and all previous are settled at 50%

Overall, a huge win outside of Sec 6 IMHO

Somethings going on with the PHX 767. Bid out today shows 80 captains in PHX as of August 18. When I left there were 65.

I think you would see the routing you posted happen in the non summer months. PHL will be busy with all the new European flying coming in April and May.

Not sure electronic notifications are going to be all that great. We need some serious RA and RO language in section 6.


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Company’s initial figure was $30mil. Not included in any of the literature now.

This is important.

All APA has done since I’ve been here is negotiate really ****ty language on everything-and play like it’s all the company’s fault.

We just went from the worst rigs amongst major airlines to the best (barring SWA). We got an 8% raise, small profit sharing, duty rigs, and LOS in one year, outside section 6. APA has their flaws but please point to any other pilot group that has made similar gains outside section 6. I know you want Delta everything plus 15% with bullet proof language but we are not in negotiations yet.

If you are still ****ed in 2022 then you have a legitimate complaint.

Agree 100%. To say APA is weak after the year we’ve had is ludicrous.

If you give a mouse a cookie..

Some people are never happy regardless of what you do

Looks like it's going to be voted down by the BOD. What an epic fail. I'm not sure what the BOD has in store for plan B. I'm sure they got the memo that their is no longer a holiday scheduling crisis. No float won't surprise the company one year later. So where's our leverage? Looks like we are
back to 3 day trips which pay 11 hours and the worst LOS language in the industry. It seems like such a no brainer to clear items from want list prior to section 6. Surprisingly rumor has it that a rep from LAX and MIA are against this. Two bases with some of the worst slash trips.

The APA, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

One step forward, 3 steps back. This is political posturing by some BOD members that are burr hurt by the success Carey has had. Watch for a move to vote Carey out and one of the BOD run for President. And watch the failures repeat, ad nauseum.

If this gets voted down we need to do whatever it takes to get alpa on property.

Honest ?... where are you getting this from? C&R?

I went over there and they are all against it, but what’s new. There’s like 40 of them that post, and they pretend they represent the masses. Bunch of blowhards with like 30,000+ posts each who are seriously addicted to pontificating online. Almost feel sorry for them.

I’m sure hope it passes too. I sent a soundoff. It’s really all we can do. I also hope our reps take their time to read the “gives” and make a informed decision. I don’t see the rush.

I seriously doubt they can vote this down. I feel it’s more grandstanding like when they weren’t gonna accept profit sharing (really?!?). Between the LOS guys and all of us doing slash trips continually, that a giant beehive to agitate. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that they can’t be that stupid.

Agree with you 100%.

The current structure is too political. Reminds me of congress. Vote along party lines instead of what's best for the pilot group.

Apparently from the rumor mill. 1 MIA rep against. 1 LAX rep against. 1 phx rep against. Both DFW against. Both CLT against. The other east bases sound like they might be against the deal. Doesn't look good for furloughees or junior line holders. 20 days on per month indefinitely ...

Avg Calendar Day, LOS approved
 

Flow pilots from Envoy at 50% contractual rate vs the current metering below contract minimums or the 25/month minimum. When there is a will in Mgmt to get something done there is a way.