That’s the funny thing. I’ve talked to very senior guys that like the fcfs. So it clearly meets the needs of the senior guys as well. What I’m hearing is “I want it my way because that’s what I want.” Very little merit to that argument.

Are you seniority #1?

If not, good luck being able to plan your commute. Oh wait, you prob live in base and only jumpseat once every other year.

Girl bai [emoji1480]

FWIW I agreed with your post in that the JS is for everyone not just commuters.

But your use of bolded, underlined caps screamed "DFW flip phone old dude" which is probably why they jumped on you. IMO.

FWIW I disagree with the base as a whole on politics but the DFW guys I fly with are really nice, not what I was expecting. It does however have a lot of "this is the way we do it" which needs to open up to change.

The only people crying are the super senior guys who are used to eating their own and just want the joy of bumping junior guys so they can go on vacation. The system works fine as is. No need to change it. Stop crying.

Or the guys who have just gotten senior and are ****ed that they can't bump anybody now. <-------Actual excuse for someone advocating for a seniority-based jumpseat.

Wasn’t a scientific poll, so take it through a filter, but the DCA results are out.

471 polled

88% for current system
10% for hybrid
2% for pure seniority

In other news, the 2% that voted for straight seniority also retire in 3 years, and are dying to give up work rules in exchange for increased pay rates and pension reinstatement.

They also live in base.

GFYs

When I read CnR you would of thought the opposite. I’m encouraged with these results...and proves that the CnR crowd are from outer space.

Space called and said, "Nah, we don't want 'em either."

If APA tries to ever change the system, the officers need to be shot, twice!

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Domiciles/PHL/Poll

Philly poll.

I hope that that was sarcasm.

The JS is not a commuter seat.

The travel priveleges are priveleges, for everyone, equally.

Non Commuters travel also, and their reasons for doing so are every bit as important to them as living wherever is to the commuter.

All the hyperbole and finger pointing and name calling directed at the "senior" aside, the main reason for a hybrid system is to eliminate rhe "fastest fingers" from the equation and allow everyone who may be flying or sleeping or watching their kid's game or whatever at the first second the window opens a chance to plan also.

Three or four days of FCFS is plenty, lots of folks trade trips inside of eight, and even inside of three.

I am a big advocate of our current system. I have commuted under the IVR system. It is the biggest QOL advantage in the world. If (a big if) a hybrid is adapted, 5 days needs to be FCFS. Pilots flying 4 day trips should be able to count on their ride home before starting that trip.

If eliminating “fastest fingers” from the equation is your main issue, then 1 or 2 days of seniority followed by 6 or 7 days of FCFS would do that. The shorter the FCFS period the more stress induced to all pilots (except the top guy per base). It’s why I’m an advocate of the current system.

How do you implement a seniority system? Would people call in and "bid" on seats and then have them awarded? Or whomever calls in during that time frame gets the seat until someone senior calls above them?

Then the guy that gets booted no longer has a seat and now has to fight for FCFS (he could be senior just not senior enough!)? Or they book multiple jump seats in anticipation of getting kicked off a few?

Just seems like a problem in search of a solution.

This is my concern, the unintended consequences of a hybrid system. Booking multiple seats could be one, another is guys booking a seat just in case, when they probably won’t use it.

I think you meant “a solution in search of a problem”:cool:

So, as a supporter of seniority first do you support that because time served with the company should have it's benefits? If so, would you support the seniority period to be by DOH? The reason I ask is because we don't really have a "seniority list", we have a randomly generated list of pilots.

Someone posted an email from AA IT that said it would be seniority by length of service (hire date).

Better not be LOS at AMR. I’m gonna be pretty ****ed off if Eagle flows start going ahead of me for the JS. Our (Newish hires) JS seniority would continue to be diluted for years. Assuming they go hybrid.

I would think it would have to be based on the seniority list, since we don’t have a DOH list. This is something an IT guy might not understand right now.

Man, I can't see that flying with certain folks! Should make current system secure!:)

Then again, many don't really understand the disparity between LOS and seniority numbers on our list. Someone on C&R told me I was nuts when I told them that a friend of mine hired at AA a month after I was at PI was over 3000 numbers senior to me.

To answer questions from two posts without quotimg all of both...

Yes I absolutely support Seniority as in Company Date on HI-8,

And, There are are arguments both directions, but my main reason for supporting a hybrid system is to give everyone including those who are flying or for whatever other reason unable to make the call at the starting gun a shot at making a reservation.

To that end, two days of seniority would be enough.

More days of seniority means more flexibility for the frequent traders.

fwiw... There is no "need" to have the reservation to return home before you leave home for a trip. Thousands have demonstrated that for decades. You may be used to it and it may be a nice thing - if you get back in time - but it is nowhere near a "need".

The JS is still not a commuter seat. A pilot who lives in base going to see his kids or parents probably feels like that opportunity to spend time with his family is every git as important as the commuters' desire to spend more time with theirs. They just do it differently.

Maybe one pilot likes to live in God's Country, and commute to work while the other prefers to live in base, and travel to God's Country.

Equally important.


For example.

Only a select few Eagle flows got DOH dates equivalent to around 1999-2000, they are sub 11000 numbers, and they got that awarded like they were new hires then. They were withheld but given a seniority number. It really isn't a big deal...

I’m fine with that, it’s guys not yet on property going ahead of me with their AMR DOH that I’d have a problem with.

Then824 were the last group to come over with anything. Everyone behind them starts as "new-hires", and the 824 ended a while ago.

He’s talking about how the eagle guys get their longevity for vacation not those guys you’re talking about. I’d be livid if their eagle time counted for the jumpseat.