Jumpseat Poll (Vote here)
 

Want to be heard? Send soundoffs and vote here:

(If it doesn’t load just sign in to APA and search “Jumpseat poll”)

https://www.alliedpilots.org/News/ID/5856

Thanks for the link, just voted for current.

Just noticed, LGA Poll, well I voted anyway.

Anyone can vote.

Looks like Westbrook was not being totally honest:

There has been much discussion about the Flight Deck Jumpseat. In June of 2015 the APA Board of Directors tasked American Airlines to create a hybrid version of listing for the jumpseat. The Hybrid System for reservation of the Integrated Voice Response (IVR) System for the Jumpseat would be as follows:

7 days and 4 hours from the day of travel (the 4 hours was an AA IT issue) anyone could reserve a jumpseat. At 3 days prior to the flight, the jumpseat would be awarded to the most senior pilot who reserved the jumpseat during the initial first 4 days and 4 hours. Inside of three days prior to the flight, if no pilot had signed up for the jumpseat, it would be awarded to the first pilot requesting the reservation.

American's IT Department has had some difficulties creating what was originally required by the the APA Board of Directors, but recently APA and AA have begun discussing developement of the hybrid system. Considering much time has elapsed since the original direction was given, we wanted to poll the LGA Domicile to see what type of Jumpseat Reservation System you would prefer. Please take the time to complete this simple 1 question poll.

Too simple. We need to take the last four digits of the pilot's SSN divide it by the sum of the seniority number square root multiplied by the annual $$$ contribution. That sum is being multiplied by the numbers of Crandall pictures above the bed and jumpsuit-styled pj's in your primary home. That's your jumpseat priority number, but only until three days ahead of the flight. Then you have to reverse the process by using the average hours a day wearing your hat while flying and divide the above amount of pictures and pj's from your second home. If you don't have one, well ... you're screwed! But no worries, you'll be senior one day, son!

Technically, he wasn't lying.

He just mentioned stuff about no 'debate' going on at the moment....

The stuff you posted is exactly what both my sources described.

TW knows he was being misleading, and he knows why.... But if you parse his words, maybe he wasn't actually lying..... He sure couldn't have been trying harder to throw people off the trail though.

I'm damned sure voting and sending soundoffs!

Exactly why I said “not totally honest.” I’d rather have a guy tell me he didn’t agree with me and he was going to support the opposite side of the argument. His response (posted on our board) was cowardly and conniving.

It sure was.

He is a real tool.

He goes out of his way to screw anyone who is not in his little cartel.

Others do the same, I’m sure-but good ol TW is very bold and obvious about it.

I'm not on FB but can someone post this on the 3rd listers site? I'm betting most of us/them want the current system. Would get a lot of traction.

Also, what an outrageous use of company and union resources.

LAX put out a survey as well...

There definitely should be a vote.

Just the other day, I was on the Jumpseat and a very senior LAA Captain was telling me how much he loves the current system. (It wasn’t TW.)

I have a feeling that the current system would win big. I have yet to come across anyone who doesn’t like it better.

But as with all things, our union is more about screwing certain groups than doing anything positive for everyone.

Why didn't you provide a link like Al did?

Though about it, but figured it wouldn’t work (his link didn’t work for me).

Edit:

Just saw this DCA poll

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Domiciles/DCA/Poll

Yeah, guess I am a weirdo, have 6 computer screens, already logged into APA, so his link worked, no worries.

Your DCA link worked also, just voted again.

The DCA poll can be taken be anybody. The LAX poll can only be accessed by LAX folks.

Idk. The natives outnumber US by almost 2:1. Many of them will support seniority and then the guys on the fence may pick seniority bc it’s what they’re used to. Change is scary.

I think these polls won’t turn out well for FCFS jumpseat.

Btw I’m in favor of FCFS. So much better.

Sound off sent as well.

Maybe the vote could be limited to those who actually commute.

IMO, non-commuters don’t have a say in this. They are not affected in any meaningful way.

Sometimes it’s about the squeaky wheel.

Look at how much the LOS guys got (though their number is smalle.)

Not saying that the LOS situation didn’t need to be fixed. Just saying that their numbers are tiny in the grand scheme

Yea true. But there wasn’t any polls put out about LOS and it was the right thing to do.

If we say let’s take a vote there’s a good chance seniority could win out.

Not a commuter, and I've only used the IVR JS system a few times. Interested to learn the rationale behind preferring FCFS to the hybrid system? I think the old-school pure seniority system is BS. Pilots losing commutes at the gate due to a seniority # duel is bad for pilots and the company.

I personally like FCFS, but then I'm pretty junior. It seems reasonable to move to a hybrid system where a senior guy who is flying when the system opens still has a chance to get the JS, but slackers who couldn't be bothered can't bump us at the gate. What am I missing?

My main problem is the proposed timeline. 4 days of seniority with the last 3 as FCFS (if the seat is still open). The first four days (days 7-4 out) are essentially an auction. Your going to have guys waiting till day 4 to book, so for planning purposes you have no stability (knowledge that the seat is yours) until day 3. Let’s face it, unless you’re the number 1 guy in your base, you just never know. You will leave for a 4 day trip not knowing if you’ll get the seat coming home.

With the current system, I can look at my trip and if I don’t get the seat, I can start trying to trade for a better trip 7 days out, or book an earlier seat, etc. also, I know that I’m going to get home BEFORE I even leave on the trip.

If we go Hybrid, I’d propose opening up the reservation period to 8 days out. First 2 days are seniority based, next 6 are FCFS if the seat is open after the first 2. Still gives considers seniority but also allows for planning.

What are you missing? The attitude of "you'll be senior one day, son". Probably from guys that got screwed back then with the B scale!

I am probably the most negative guy out here when it comes to the IVR system/FCFS vs seniority. I *had* to double commute for four years and now I am *enjoying* a single flight a day to and from my home airport. It is my choice (I won't bore you with my personal sobering story whether it's really a choice) and yes, commuting sucks.

A brief history about the IVR/FCFS system: That was probably the only thing that LUS and LAWA could agree on (besides the fact that they HATED each other), it was fair to almost everyone (except procrastinators and in some situations guys on reserve) even the jumpseater was weight protected aka the company in the worst case had to bump a revenue passenger.

It took some real man of genius aka TW to completely f up this system. Everybody backed this system when it was first introduced to LAA, but TW made a stink about it. It got so bad in the APA henhouse that the company told APA that they would keep the current system, but the js weight protection was no more!

Another brilliant move by APA was the elimination of the last leg trip swap. Let's say you were on your last leg back to base, but you'd miss your commute home because you get in too late. If there was a pilot rated in the same ac and seat, (s)he could fly the last leg of the sequence for you. You still got paid, and the commuting pilot flew for free. Obviously, you both had to agree.

Some real geniuses from a different f world shook their heads in dismay and anger because they didn't see the sense of flying for free. Now it is gone. Whether something makes sense to you or not doesn't matter anymore, APA will make decisions for you.

There had been discussions about change of union. My personal view is to vote those idiots out. A new union with the same db is not gonna change anything.

But it won't give those senior guys with the "I've been here 500 years" attitude the satisfaction just to walk up to the gate and claim THEIR jumpseat that they so rightfully deserve.

That's what it's all about!

I’m LAA, a commuter, and junior in my bid status, I prefer the current FCFS system. Having said that, the bold part isn’t going to help the cause. The Jumpseat isn’t just for commuters.

Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
“Maybe the vote could be limited to those who actually commute.
IMO, non-commuters don’t have a say in this. They are not affected in any meaningful way.l”

EXACTLY. LAA and senior. I like the Hybrid system suggested that goes Seniority for the first two days then fcfs, which honors seniority for at least a couple of days but then gives everyone else time to plan. But, the “non-commuters don’t have a say in this” line is BS. Your choice (yeah, that’s right, NOBODY has a gun to your head) to commute is not my problem. The JS is for EVERY PILOT!

I'm not a commuter anymore and I'm a huge proponent of the current system (with many improvements...hybrid not being one of them).

This is not a smart road to take.

No one has a gun to your head, but the threat of divorce might feel like one.

The "Commuting is a choice" is an idiotic statement. You don't know that person's life situation. Are you going to pay for a new hire to pack up and move to NYC on year 1 pay while on probation when that person already lives in DFW?

The current system is fair. It should stay in place. Nobody has a gun to your head to go on vacation. Your inability to use a basic phone system and plane ahead is not my problem. The JS is for EVERY PILOT, not just senior pilots.

The JS is just another seat on the airplane like seat 14B is. It's in the company interest to give the best opportunity for guys to get to work without last minute pop up commute issues.

Unless you're #1 you would have to put in a bunch of phone calls in order to secure at least one jump seat. It just seems like a solution in search of a problem.

What does kinda upset me about the nonrev system is that the Express guys are riding around as D2's with us. At Delta they are below mainline employees. I see both arguments but the company has chosen to use our pass benefits as a way to attract people to work at the Express carriers in lieu of paying them more.

Holy tool. Unbelievable.

Are you really that surprised? Do you wonder why we have Project Wingman? Ever heard the old (but no so distant) stories how pilots were treated at the old LAA, and how they treated each other? The same people that have a "not my problem" attitude are the ones complaining being labelled "SkyNazi".

As it once said in KZ Buchenwald "Jedem das Seine".

Obviously NEITHER of you guys can read for comprehension. While your “personal problems” concerning your need to commute are certainly not my problem. (I have enough of my own, to include when I was junior, on probation and the wife split with the kids to the other side of the country and we had ZERO access to the jumpseat. Gee, how did I ever survive:confused:)

But I think Seniority should apply for a couple of days and THEN fcfs for four or five days so that the junior guys (along with guys going on vacation) can plan on their commute. And spare me the Sky Nazi bull$hit. I’ve been hearing that since you were probably in diapers.

Oh for crying out loud. READ AGAIN the last line I wrote. We agree 100%...The jump seat is for EVERYONE. Show me where I said anything about the JS being for senior people only. Man you guys are a bunch of cry babies.

I hesitate to even respond, and I agree completely that the JS is for everyone, not just commuters (though I prefer the current system to a hybrid). With that said, your approach is a bit abrasive when you YELL! With caps and explanation marks. That’s what caused the other replies.

LOS was the right thing, but all the stupid ass caveats Carey agreed to were not.

He even has the gall to brag about that pay raise-which APA got for us.... Right.

Thanks. Point taken, although I wasn’t trying to yell as much as to merely emphasize the word. Personally what I find “abrasive” is when people start throwing around words like “stupid”, “idiotic”, “tool” to describe what they think about someone else’s opinion...to which we are all entitled.

Quit being such a stupid, idiotic, abrasive tool!

(Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

For me, commuting is a choice and my belief is that the Jumpseat is for everyone no matter if they are heading out for fun or work. To have seniority taken out of the equation is difficult. I spent a lot of years working under a seniority system waiting my turn, and now I have new hires bragging to me about FCFS. AA needs to have a system that balances the needs of all. CD9

That’s ok. Don’t worry. You’ll be senior one day too sonny...because that’s the way we’ve always done it.

(Sorry, neither could I :D )