Do y’all know if there is a “reasons”report on vacation award? I had 2 weeks to use (due to PVD this year). One week was awarded on my 2nd choice. Then the week I had selected for my 3rd choice wasn’t awarded...then on the “remaining weeks” pdf is the week I had for my 3rd choice. I looked over my 1st bid and I didn’t see any glaring problems. Any ideas?

So you are comparing me, using all my vacation days per union request, to someone who crosses a pickets line?

The floaters will be the first ones to complain about not getting a great contract

I am genuinely sorry to hear about your child. There are plenty of other ways to get paid time off to be with your child, other than floating. I know many pilots who did just that.

The comparison, while not referring to a true scab, has a lot of validity. Because if the union can’t count on you to comply with a simple request, when CAN they count on you?

The bottom line is this... when your union asks you for unity and sacrifice, you comply and endure it together... because we all know that the company fears a unified pilot group the most. You find ways to deal with what you have to deal with... but you comply.

The union asked you to BID all your vacation and use it. That means, no floating. The union did not ask, Float your vacation and take them as PVDs. They did this to show a force of unity on the vacation awards by displaying a long row of Zeros under the float column. It was a simple enough request.

By floating you are basically telling the company that, hey, I don’t really agree with what the union is doing, and I’m gonna kind of do my own thing... how else can I help?

The excuses I’m hearing from floaters are...well, let’s just put it this way, nothing new.

I got hired this year and I have never hear a peep about this no float campaign. Where are all of you hearing about this and what am I missing?

Double check which email the Union has on file for you. That’s where I’ve been receiving all the take you vacation emails.

Just Checked. Everything correct. Maybe they don’t put probie pilots on the email list?

Newbie here with the same problem. I did that, and I emailed the union to make sure my settings were all correct. Since then I've received two emails telling me there are upcoming BOD meetings, and nothing else for months.

No email either. I support our union but had no clue about the request not to float. They havemy correct email and it’s not in spam either.

I’m clueless then y’all. Sorry that is happening, out of curiosity, have y’all switched domiciles or anything? I wonder if that has anything to do with it. (Still it’s all strange that some haven’t received all the info)

fwiw.. I do recognize that there are pilots families out there who are in dire need of supplemental income up to and including vacation float due to extreme family situations whereby those needs come far ahead of any union business... and Erroneous if you fall into that category then I recognize that and understand. My previous post was directed to those pilots not in those circumstances, but chose to float anyways due to personal choice. Sorry if my post came out too harsh.

To the noobs,

You have to go into the APA site and opt in to email communications. It defaults to NO.

I just finished up my first year with the company. Besides the union emails, I also received a letter in the mail dated December 6th from the APA basically stating the need for the entire membership to take ALL of their vacation. In my opinion, the union did a good job of communicating the no float initiative but I understand that not everyone feels that way. For what it’s worth, because of the information I received from the union I did not float a single day of vacation.

We were only bidding for round 1. So unless you bid all 3 weeks for one stretch in round 1, you should have 2 weeks left (assuming you’re less than 6 years on property). Our will bid 1 of those for round 2 and one for round 3. Though it’s all done at once.

Guys with the email problems, please take the time to visit the APA web site from time to time. Think of it like reviewing CCI. You need to stay informed. There is a ton of info on there. You’d have known. Hell, you need to go on there to look at the 3XP PBS report anyway. While you’re there...read some base blasts.

Because this time around it was not about a no float campaign. Union sent emails out to take your vacation which most of us would reccomended anyways.

In the end I am the one who should probably apologize. I did not float either time but I can tell you it does burn me to see folks get lumped into a category without any consideration. Quite simply if you are within 5 years of retirement and floating all your vacation the assumption that it is for purely money might be valid. I have no idea what the latest union emails were about but it did not seem like anything more than working on the mental health of our pilot group in light of what I perceive to be an increased suicde rate. It is almost comical, if not so upsetting, that on a current suicide forum everyone is so understanding and yet on another we are willing, if not asking, to publish names and condem individuals with no understanding. Sorry to be the Debby Downer but something’s shouldn’t be done. Unity amongst this pilot group isn’t not calling out and seperating individuals. If anyone has a problem with a fellow pilot we go to Professional Standards, not the company or airing greviences to the masses. Same thing applies here. If anyone has a problem with how I operate or anyone else then sound off to the union and demand they handle it. Unified front to the company while handling issues internally.

Valid points about not lumping everyone into the same category. But the intent of no floating went far beyond the mental health of the pilot group, and this message was displayed more than once in APA emails: it was done in order to display a show of unity by a long row of Zeros down the float column.
Simply said, it’s the senior guys within 5 years of retirement that should be the first ones not to float! I mean, how much are they making as 777/787 captains... and yet they need that extra $15 or $20k that bad?
If I have any empathy for guys who floated it would be the ones who are in dire circumstances.
But when your union asks for a show of unity, you comply knowing and expecting that your union brother and sister next to you has your back by complying as well. That is the most basic foundation of unionism. Everyone sacrifices together for the good of the contract and future contracts.
The company fears one thing the most - that is a Unified pilot group. Nothing else even comes close.

Come on Slice. Stop being a vagina and show your face!

I’ve agreed with everything you (and others) have wrote. It was about unity. I think what gets a lot of people is the majority that floated were senior in seat/aircraft and/or WB guys. For some reason it isn’t the junior that floated that bothers me, it’s the senior. There is a stigma of “you’ll be senior one day... blah blah blah” and this just reaffirms this stereotype. Don’t get me wrong, it was not all of them and a lot of guys retiring this year gave up a lot of $$$ to support the masses. But it was clearly a majority in favor of the senior. QOL and other issues don’t really effect (affect?) them and it’s the appearance that they can care less. What sorta scares me is if these guys making 300K+ either can’t subside on that income without floating for one year, or simply use the tired excuse that “they gotta make up for the last decade”, where does this leave us as a group when push comes to shove here soon and we’re offered cash over real QOL changes. You know where the Slice’s of the world stand. On a bright note, CnR says 87% didn’t float so it’s really only 13%. if you take out those who probably needed too, were back to the 10% rule which holds true anywhere. There’s the cup 1/2 full

He is probably making another screen name as I type this. Is he a senior guy, I really dont remember but thought he was just a few years at AA.

Think he’s a very senior WB guy

Oh, thats explains it, he floated like many of those guys

while that may be true, it could be the union's attempt to make sure the no float campaign doesnt get interpreted as some sort of work action...i could be wrong, but unions have been nailed with this in the past and it cost alot of money.

I gotcha. Just so I understand it correctly; I wanted to bid 2 separate weeks...so in round 1 it awarded my highest preference and then quit. Such that in round 2 it’ll try to award me another week. And so on for each remaining weeks. Sorry I’m a little dumb at VMS stuff.

...If only there was something like an instruction manual that explained the entire process...

Don’t be a Richard. I looked through it and I just have missed it.

He’s not as senior as I thought.

I have flown with Slice. Great guy to fly with. I am disappointed in his continued no float campaign. Stubbornness? Pettiness? Self serving? I am not sure. He will have to live with his actions. I will not be friendly with him when I run in to him. Being snubbed by your peers can cause real angst.

The excuses are priceless. Guys who have been at AA for years and are making bank are saying they NEED to float their vacation for when they take time off later in the year. If those guys finances are so tight that they HAVE TO float then man, they have bigger problems. I am not buying it. Funny how the junior guys, you know the guys not making 1/2 what they are making, can some how take their vacation shows that their excuses are just that - EXCUSES. They are just greedy and they are the same dudes picking up trips at straight time which is why there is very little premium. They are short sighted. Rant over.

You said it, they will vote almost solely on the cash it brings them and disregard soft pay, work rules and many other QOL improvements. Their thinking was shortsighted on the last TA and 13% are still thinking the same today.

Cheers to that. Don’t get me started on the makeup list. So dumb.

Why I LOVE Reserve (living in base)

The makeup *****s keep me home

Just a heads up, your round 1 bid does not carry over. You need to now enter bids for round 2 and 3 separately. You can import your round 1 bid though. This year, we can apply conditional bidding to round 3. We couldn’t last year and many (myself included) ended up with 2 weeks in a row of vacation.

If you don’t care about your vacation, I suggest bidding first weeks of the month. This will give you credit and put you in a higher group if you sit reserve. End of the month on reserve is a waste...assuming you like to fly as little as possible.

One other thing. There is a list of remaining vacation weeks right next to the round 1 awards.

Mucho appreciado, I put in all my requests for rounds 2-4. And you better believe most of my requests are first weeks of the month! Thanks again.

Not really. Many guys use TTOT and TTS to dump their entire schedules almost down to zero... then rebuild using MU by choosing to fly smarter, not harder...for example only choosing the highly coveted 1-1s where you DH down on the last flight, layover and work a quick flight back... which pays 10:20 for what can be a quick 45 minutes of work.

My Md80 FO buddy in DFW flew only 220hrs hard time last year and yet made $220k by doing just this. He dumps his entire schedule every month down to zero and uses MU to rebuild a schedule where he may only fly maybe 35-40hrs of hard time yet get paid for 90.

MU is great if you use it wisely.

I have absolutely no doubt that some are able to do it smartly and under the “work smarter, not harder” way of doing business. Good on them.

But I also have no doubt over 1/2 of guys in makeup are on the “work harder/not smarter” train too and are working 95-100 a month for exactly 95-100 a month

The point wasn't that MU isn't useful... But rather if everyone avoided MU, and instead listed for PM, that would be smarter. Same effect, except for time-and-a-half. Only ones who miss out there are OOB.

Agreed on both posts above. But the truth is that 1) it’s impossible to get a high percentage of the pilot group to do just that, and B) every legacy (and most, I think) airlines have their own versions of MU where guys can put in for picking up trips at straight time. I know DL and UA have it for sure. Just another way for guys to rebuild their months.

Me, I’ve used MU occasionally in the past... rebuilding my month choosing smarter trips (the 1-1s for example.) But I’m also always in premium every month and on more than a few occasions when they’ve called me for MU I’ve gotten them to change it to PM depending on how desperate they were.

Agreed. Wishful thinking that everyone would stay out and generate lots of PR and OG. And you know what, even though I think it’s stupid to work 95 hours for 95 hours of pay, it’s their right, so who am I to judge. Instead, I’ll just thank them, since it lowers the amount of days I have to work on reserve