Vacation No Float
 

Disgusting. And you wonder why we can't get a good contract. Ole Sliceback floated 24 days. Nice job clown!

Sad. Very sad. And we wonder why we can’t get an industry leading contract when OUR OWN LINE PILOTS can’t even follow a simple union request to build unity and leverage.

To those who floated.... I don’t know how you can look yourselves in the mirror when your FELLOW UNION MEMBERS are sacrificing LOTS OF $$$ to promote unity and leverage... while you suck it all up at our expense.

Disgusting and shameful. NO excuses.

I'd prefer, in the next contract, no vacation floating allowed but allow the ability to pick up over vacation. Right now if you get awarded a crappy vacation week (ie winter) like pretty much half the company gets, it's useless. For those with kids they can't go anywhere (school) and end up sitting at home under a blanket hoping it doesn't snow.

I recently flew with a no floater and he had some pretty good points. I won't judge either way.

You should judge either way. The union asked us not to float.

And how many of the leaders or former leaders didn't? Hoenstly I've lost interest. Clearly many don't follow directives, instead of lashing out and blaming floaters they need to understand why people are doing it.

Exactly! Looks like the senior demographic floated more than the junior side. God help us if they increase the retirement age. Lots of dead weight in the top half of the seniority list.

That's why I'd expect a contract rather quickly... Get a yes vote from the ladder pullers before the new guys take over.

Dude. BS.

Your union asked you NOT TO FLOAT.

There is no gray area here. Either you’re a unionist. Or you’re a self serving individualist.

There is no excuse to float when your union has asked you not to, in the interest of creating leverage... especially during Section 6.

The principle in not crossing a picket line is pretty much the same.

Wow. Management is so proud of you.

So your excuse to float is based on the fact that others don’t follow the directives? Great union ethics dude.

AGAIN Slice???

What a POS.

I looked at LGA and DCA and it is amazing how many of those senior dudes floated. The lower end of the list was pretty solid. I saved the list to my computer for future reference.

Vacation No Float
 

This is a pretty blanket statement but i glanced at a couple domiciles and it sure seemed to me the more senior dudes floated way more than their less senior counterparts.

Probably the same clowns who are in a labor union yet vote republican [emoji1748]*[emoji3603]

Didn't float?

All of the leaders or former leaders that deserve any respect and have any credibility going forward didn't float.

(plus one guy that screwed up his bid and is prepared to donate $24,000 to make it right)

Didn't he float last time as well?

What does float mean?

Slice always post cool info on here, hard to believe he is a floater. Floating vacation and working extra for straight time. I question peoples intelligence.

I was right. He didn't float last time. This was his lame @$$ excuse:

We do have real men of genius here at American!

They do it the same way they've done it for the last 30 years...with a smirk, a you'll be senior someday son and a "Damn, aren't I awesome?" air about them.

There were quite a few JR (less than 2 year ish) 320 F/O floaters in LAX. Quite a few were flow thrus just based on a quick glance. Some OTS too though. I’m more disappointed in them than the senior guys.

Edit: and no, I’m not counting guys who have accumulated 8 or 9 days and floated 1 or 2.

Looks like 777/787 FO’s floated a ton.

Looks like 737 CA’s and FO’s did a great job of not floating in LAX. Thanks gents!

Noob here what's vacation floating?

I'm hearing my fellow MIA 737 ca's floated a bunch. Disappointed.

I didn't float any, FWIW. Even though I'll probably end up with assigned vacation (again), I'll never float. The time away is worth more to me, than any $$ I might make ever would be.

That’s what happens when there is no accountability at the BOD and NO level. In the past they said don’t float, but did themselves. Or bid all weeks last year, then got union leave to touch their vacation week and put it back in bank (same as floating).

APA’s only plan is don’t float and Dan’s rogue negotiating.

In simple terms, it means that you don’t take your vacation and keep your vacation balance to get paid out at the end of the year, or just keep it in the bank if you want to drop a trip (if you can) and use vacation balance to get credit for said trip.

The union advised all AA pilots to take their vacation in order to “recover/unwind” from their stressful schedules. One can connect the dots on what that means, but it’s pretty clear to everyone, including those who ignored the union.

Float
 

There’s more to it than that. For each week of floated vacation, the company removes a week of offered vacation. They probably remove those vacation weeks from holidays and the summer.

Keith F’ing Wilson floated 24 days? Unbelievable.

We all knew B👀th was going to float and make his lame excuses for it. Shame on you. I know you’ll try to justify your avarice in your own mind, but deep down you know the truth. You’re not pulling your weight in this union but you’ll enjoy any of the spoils. When you turn 65 you’ll probably still post all your impressive little statistics here because you have nothing else in your life. You act like you’re still on b-scale.

Agreed. I did not float and the number of captains floating was disturbing. We are going into section six with 15000 independent contractors.

Slice: you are a sad man

Aren’t you full of self righteousness. How does your ego fit in there with that and your Napoleon complex? Perhaps there is a gray area. Maybe, some individuals have a circumstance other than making more money. Can you possibly contemplate that or should I ask who is being the individualist? Did I float? No. But that is merely because I have no vacation to do so. This isn’t because I’m increasing my pay. No, I am blessed with a child who has extended stays in the hospital that are all to frequent and irregular.

So why don’t you take your BS and try to fit it up where that stick is buried, and eat a bag a D’s!

Lastly, names shouldn’t be posted on a public forum as this. This whole thread should be moved to C&R

I’m a relatively new guy so, other than money, can you explain another reason someone would float? If you have a sick kid wouldn’t you want to spend your vacation time with them? I’m a little confused

You can drop trips using vacation time. For example I dropped an Xmas trip that gave me the 20-27 off in December. I think guys also use it to help with hitting IMAX but not sure. If your kid is sick you can do an EO which I think is "emergency off" and I'm pretty sure use vacation for payout for that.

Also during the year the company offers additional vacation proffers and if you have unused vacation that is a time to use it.

For the senior guys who are working nine days a month they already have a ton of vacation time just built into their schedules. Also the guys (mostly LUS and LTWA) who are close to retirement but need the money would float and take the payout - they'll soon have all the vacation in the world after age 65.

An argument could be made that since senior people don't want to use their vacation, we should decrease the top award days and increase the lower level days available.

With family issues your CP can take you off a trip which will automatically backfill those days with your vacation days to be awarded under the next cycle. Before the end of that month you have the option ask for these days to not be used or instead use floated vacation you had made available. This is something I have used in the past though recently there has been an “uptick” in occurrences requiring me to dig a hole into future vacation days. In the end it is still about money as bills still need to be paid even if daddy can’t work.

It is possible that a lot junior pilots didn't float because they didn't know what it meant. Also a lot of us don't receive APA emails.

Correct if I am wrong: dropping a trip has nothing to do with whether you can PVD it or not. Yes, you wont get paid but you can still drop (assuming it is green). If your goal is more time at home then I dont see floating as a way to achieve that.

Either way, 13% of the pilots floated and I bet a majority of those are just greedy

I think floating gets you more money, not more time at home. It basically means not taking your vacation, and just getting paid for it.

Yeah if you don't care about getting a pay check. Mine was $700 on this last one...not many here I would bet can live on that.

Thats the point I was making. Sick kid or not, I dont see floating as an excuse.

Aah, gotcha. Yeah, I didn't float (and never would, I don't think), but never saw any union communication about it.

Dropping a trip has nothing to do with PVD. The system is stacked against most having the ability to drop a trip. Yes if your trip is green then you can get rid of it but more times then not that “green” trip doesn’t exist unless you are senior. Even so if I have a 82 hour month and have to get rid of my 5 day, with a trailing redeye, due to a week+ long impending hospital stay having Something to makeup a little of the 26+ hours lost might be needed.

All that said I have no doubt most who floated did it out of greed. Last time the union ask for a no float I complied and it is part of the reason I continue to have no ability to float anymore. Lastly the same group started he outcry for publicly publishing the names of those who dodnt comply. That is the wrong move. It should be up to the union to go thru each one to find out why, not the lynch mobs right for justice.

I'm sorry to hear your child has complicated health issues. Which insurance plan did you choose? Do you have an out of pocket limit? I just flew with someone who had a $500,000 medical bill, he was required to pay $2,000 of that half million. Have you reached out to APA for help?

It is not BS to expect our pilots to comply with union directives. If AA went on strike would you honor it? That's a 100% paycut. Taking your vacation instead of floating is just asking you to live on your industry standard hourly pay rates. That should put you in the top 10% of wage earners in the country. Hopefully this ordeal will be a wake up call to the pilot group at large that you are either with the pilot group or against us.