APA Boeing phone call
 

Saw the media got a hold of the phone conference between Boeing and the APA reps. Boeing gave the same party line of "we try not to overload the crews with information that's unnecessary so they actually know the information we believe is important"


My viewpoint is that if its gonna try to kill me I wanna know about it. This quote from Apollo 13 best describe the viewpoint that most pilots feel about the situation with regards to Boeing "I want you guys to find every engineer who designed every switch, every circuit, every transistor, and every lightbulb that's up there"


What are your thoughts on it? Do you feel the training was adequate or would you have rather had a more in depth training on the aircraft and its systems?

Well, what are your thoughts about the large number of culpability-seeking first posts from mysterious individuals that appear immediately after an accident? :rolleyes:

My thoughts on it are that flight crews and airlines should have been told by the manufacturer that the system is on the aircraft and given all available information on MCAS and how to disable it if needed. Even if this lead to what Boeing referred to as information overload for crews or what Boeings worst fear was (a new type rating for the aircraft), at least its better than having 2 airframes in the ground and the rest of the fleet grounded worldwide.

What equipment are you on?








AT YOUR NEWS DESK/LAW FIRM!!!!!!!!!!

Actually neither, just dumbfounded why Boeing keeps throwing out the same company line about "overloading" flight crews with knowledge.

I hate to tell you but the UAL ALPA rep disagrees/-ed with you. He stated that an automatic system does not need to be explained or taught to pilots because... (drum roll).. it's automatic.

Especially if it would further stretch the plausibility of the common type rating :rolleyes:

Funny how pilots only want the minimum information needed to pass ground school (I can’t control it, why do I need to know what it is or how it works) but when the SHTF, suddenly Boeing and AA left them hanging. Bottom line, info about the system should have been in the manual and covered in a couple of home study slides. Boeing screwed the pooch keeping it mum and they’re gonna pay a huge price for it.

Agreed with above, Boeing will settle and pay out $$$$$$ but they are already insured just like airlines are. Contrary to what many think, the MAX will do just fine. The 737 didn’t end when UA went down at COS and US went down at PIT. After those 2 fatal crashes, they addressed the problem and pilots were appropriately trained. No crash since then due to rudder hardover. Once this software fix is done and pilots trained appropriately, I dont see another MCAS related crash. It will only run once and be limited in its travel amount. MCAS will be override-able with a full nose up input. Problem will be solved. Not to mention being hooked up to both sensors and it’ll only run when both AOA sense a high alpha, so MCAS even operating is going to be a rare event when one sensor fails.

Pretty sure that is talking about the minutia detail of something like “how an air molecule travels through the ACM” kinda thing. If there is a new flight control “law” like thing that pushes the nose down 5 degrees repeatedly, then yeah pilots should be told about it!

I worked in experiential. Engineers are people, they make mistakes and they aren't on the airplane. You are. There are people out there that can and will kill you and will go home after work.

I flew Maintenance Flight Test for American. Found the 707 300 series stalled before stick shaker. I was told I did not know how to stall a 707, I had stalled the 707 many times testing them.. Another American Test Pilot had it stall before stick shaker. American Test Pilots didn't know how to stall a 707. Boeing Test Pilots came to test the 707 and fell out of the sky with no stall warning. Turns out nearly 100 707 300s around the earth had been fitted with the 707 100 stall warning and they had been flying that way for 15 years.

I like Boeing a lot, but they are people, not geniuses and people make mistakes. You'll be the first to hit the ground. Demand to be heard and trust yourself, you'll likely find you know more about flying then the experts.

I understand that people are people, and the economics of business but what bothers me is the arrogance and condescendence when a product is found to be deficient.

Human life is becoming a dollar figure. And that seems initially cheaper than fixing a problematic product. AFAIK this attitude has been a (financial) disaster in the past.

That's why self regulation doesn't work. And this doesn't only apply to Boeing.

I believe your thinking is solid. There hasn't been an aircraft lost in the US in 20 years. That is something to be proud of, but I believe the industry is going down a dangerous path. I wish I had more answers then concerns.

That is not an accurate statement.

I thought 587 in New York was the last one. What one came after that?

Srsly? Comair, Lexington KY, Colgan , buffalo NY, UPS, Birmingham AL, Atlas prime air, Houston TX....just to name a few.

Buffalo, Houston, Somewhere this winter with a 145 in the snow to name a few!

Colgan Air 3407 and US Airways 1549. Both outcomes are a result of (lack of) pilot skills.

On a technical basis, you have the Southwest flight with the blown up engine that killed a pax (I was told by one of our AA check airmen that WN puts 3 or 4 times more hours on the engine before it gets overhauled).

I think for this discussion we need to divide the recent accidents into a technical (airplane sys) category vs. pilot skill category.

Edit: Just found this on another board... (nevermind)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.14f59e6a0943

I stand corrected. Pilots don't set out to kill themselves. Something caused those crashes.

Uh-huh. So the biggest operator of CFM56s in the world is running their engines "3 or 4 times more hours" between overhauls than....what...CFM's recommendations? Surely not. This sounds like 5th-hand information that has been given the appropriate embellishments along the way by several peeps with an anti-SWA agenda. :rolleyes:

Well, I did state that this info came from a check airman, didn't I?

Not true.... There was literally a crash just over two weeks ago on May 3, 2019. Miami Air International Flight 293, a B737-800 operated by a 121 passenger charter airline, crashed resulting in a total hull loss. All human passengers survived while 3 pets onboard were killed. The aircraft over ran the runway and ended up in a river.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/04/florida-plane-crash-survivor-landing-guantanamo-bay-cuba/1100290001/

Atlas Air 3591 crashed Feb 23, 2019. It was a B767 and resulted in 3 deaths. https://www.flyingmag.com/ntsb-atlas-3591-cvr-review

Conquest Air Cargo lost a plane on Feb 8, 2019 resulting in the death of a friend and former colleague.
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2019/02/10/coast-guard-calls-off-search-for-plane-captain-after-crash-in-ocean-waters/

Somebody told me there had not been a hull loss in US for 20 years. I believed him.

Not even to mention (off top of my head)...

AA in NYC, Colgan in NY, UPS in BHM, Asiana in SFO, and a US Airways express in CLT. All since 2000.

Human life has probably always been a dollar figure.

Ol' Sully landed one in the Hudson river. Even made a movie about it...

True....except maybe for the 320 guy in the alps. And calloway on the fdx dc10. :)

Did you remind him to Never Forget?

No, that’s the Air Force...


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I suppose that confirms the bs factor the higher you go up the ranks...