Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   American (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/)
-   -   The New Envoy? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/122363-new-envoy.html)

ag386 06-14-2019 07:48 AM

The New Envoy?
 
https://images.app.goo.gl/JPTzrRumjZgL5Cva9

FlyyGuyy 06-14-2019 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2836562)
https://images.app.goo.gl/JPTzrRumjZgL5Cva9

Please explain?

ag386 06-14-2019 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy (Post 2836620)
Please explain?

American seems to have turned into one big Envoy over the past years.

Al Czervik 06-14-2019 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2836634)
American seems to have turned into one big Envoy over the past years.

“Seems?????”

1Taco 06-14-2019 12:44 PM

He’s salty because he got fired from Envoy. So he attacks AA or Envoy anyway he can. Even if it includes using “airlinegeeks.com” to TRY to prove a point.

dvtpilot 06-15-2019 04:49 PM

You should hear about what management just did to it’s largest wholly owned today!

You’d think they would learn a bigger stick isn’t going to work after the mechanics but I guess not. I hope the APA is truly ready for a fight.

Varsity 06-16-2019 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvtpilot (Post 2837368)
You should hear about what management just did to it’s largest wholly owned today!

You’d think they would learn a bigger stick isn’t going to work after the mechanics but I guess not. I hope the APA is truly ready for a fight.

Signed a deal and backed out days later.

Good luck AA.

MD-11Loader 06-16-2019 03:50 AM

June 15th 2019
Fellow Pilots,

On Tuesday I signed an Agreement in Principle, along with the Envoy Senior Labor Relations Counsel and management's lead negotiator, to secure a comprehensive compensation improvement package for the pilots at Envoy. The Agreement in Principle was reached following a day of intense negotiations and was predicated on previous negotiating meetings. In preparing for the final round of negotiations it was made clear that neither the MEC, nor the pilots at Envoy, would accept any deal which left us lagging in compensation or had concessions attached to compensation improvements.

Once an Agreement in Principle is signed, the significant terms of an agreement are in place and the negotiating process is essentially over, with the tenets of the deal in place. The next step is drafting and editing contract language implementing the essential terms of the agreement. Sometimes this drafting process takes time, however Envoy management seemed determined to alleviate the mounting pressure they are experiencing to increase compensation and quality of life at Envoy due to the recent ratification of pay rate increases at Piedmont, as well as the PSA deal that was inked in early April. As such, we expected a language pass to be presented to us quickly. After the Agreement in Principle was signed, I called an MEC meeting via teleconference for Wednesday night in anticipation that draft contract language would be prepared and ready for evaluation by the MEC.

On Wednesday, the Company sent their first language pass derived from the Agreement in Principle that was signed by both parties on Tuesday. The language arrived less than two hours prior to the MEC teleconference, so there was not adequate time to thoroughly review and make technical corrections to the language reflecting our agreement prior to the teleconference. During the teleconference I updated the MEC on the progress of negotiations. Although the Agreement in Principle doesn't provide every provision we were seeking, it is a document that we found satisfactory and agreed to, and one that I believe the MEC would ratify.

The Agreement in Principle that Envoy management and your MEC Chairman agreed to includes many positive provisions for the pilots at Envoy without concessions. Some of the highlights are below:

Pay rates would be increased to a level slightly higher than those at PSA with retroactivity to May 15.
Pay-out upon flow through or retirement of accrued sick banks
Improvements to Reserve work rules which provide increased time off and more predictability
A reduction of pilot contribution to health care costs
Several Letters of Intent and agreements including Grievance Settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots
All the recent progress came to a screeching halt late on Friday afternoon.

On Thursday, the MEC Officers, Contract Compliance Committee Chairman, and Envoy ALPA Senior Labor Relations Counsel worked throughout the day to vet and edit the language pass from the company. Late Thursday, we transmitted our revised language, which consisted of minor edits and clean-ups, back to the Company for their review. Then on Friday, I was told by Management's lead negotiator that the Company would be backing out of the Agreement in Principle that was agreed to earlier this week. The excuse given was that AAG had told Envoy management that they had exceeded their authority. At no time during this round of negotiations, and at no time before the Company signed the AIP on Tuesday, did Envoy indicate that their authority was limited or subject to the veto of AAG. This after the fact excuse to welsh on our agreement is in no way consistent with good faith negotiations.

This isn't the first time that our management has demonstrated bad faith in negotiations – a recent example being the failed Reserve Rules change proposals from negotiations ending in January. However, the impact of management reneging on this Agreement in Principle is far more damaging. The credibility of our management has been completely undermined by their actions this week, leaving us unable to trust that they will follow through on future agreements. This behavior is unacceptable.

Whether or not AAG is stepping in to rescind our agreement, or Envoy management ever actually conferred with AAG when they claimed to, is immaterial at this point. They made an agreement and are now repudiating it in bad faith. We cannot continue to pursue good faith negotiations with a management team that is incapable of following through on the agreements they make with the Association.

Envoy management is either unable to identify the mounting challenges facing the viability of the operation, or they are engaged in an effort to turn the pilots against their representatives in a desperate attempt at union busting. It is often assumed that management's actions are nefarious, but this week's events demonstrate that they simply are not committed to negotiate in good faith. Only when AAG recognizes and acknowledges that the pilots of Envoy demand an agreement that provides pay parity relative to the industry measured in real compensation, and not just pay rate tables, will it be possible for us to view it as a partner acting in good faith to offer a career path that meets industry standards. My profound disappointment in our management is shared by your LEC Representatives, the other MEC Officers, and volunteers who work tirelessly to represent the best interests of the pilot group day in and day out.

Originally, when we sent our update last Friday, a communication explaining why we hadn't come to an agreement was in development and slated for distribution. We determined that the signing of an Agreement in Principle, which represented the framework for tangible, durable, ratifiable, and much needed compensation improvements, eliminated the need to distribute that communication. Now that the company has reneged on the signed Agreement in Principle, it seems prudent to share with the pilot group the reasons why we are where we are. Following the transmittal of this update, we are also distributing a communication which was originally slated for distribution earlier this week.

You have the right to be angry.

You have the right to be disappointed.

Your management has failed you yet again.

You deserve proper compensation.

You deserve acceptable work rules.

Your Local Representatives are advocating for you tirelessly.

Your Officers and Committee Volunteers continue to focus on providing the services the pilots require.

I will not rest in my representation of the pilot group, my responsibility and duty to you.



It is never pleasant to be the bearer of bad news. Today marks the latest unwarranted disparagement of Envoy Pilots in a series of adversarial and toxic interactions initiated by Envoy management. We ask you in the meantime to continue to exhibit professionalism.


In Unity,

Steven Pallai

Iowa Farm Boy 06-19-2019 02:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Make no mistake- this was not "exceeded their authority." This was intentional. This is Doug Parker via Jerry Glass doing what they do. What they LOVE to do.

Beat you down; wear you down.

Induce Stockholm Syndrome.

They do not respect anyone or anything outside of themselves. APA and APA pilots better grow a BIG pair and get some fortitude because we're going to get steamrolled into another "regional average" contract if we don't.

cactusmike 06-20-2019 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD-11Loader (Post 2837539)
June 15th 2019
Fellow Pilots,

On Tuesday I signed an Agreement in Principle, along with the Envoy Senior Labor Relations Counsel and management's lead negotiator, to secure a comprehensive compensation improvement package for the pilots at Envoy. The Agreement in Principle was reached following a day of intense negotiations and was predicated on previous negotiating meetings. In preparing for the final round of negotiations it was made clear that neither the MEC, nor the pilots at Envoy, would accept any deal which left us lagging in compensation or had concessions attached to compensation improvements.

Once an Agreement in Principle is signed, the significant terms of an agreement are in place and the negotiating process is essentially over, with the tenets of the deal in place. The next step is drafting and editing contract language implementing the essential terms of the agreement. Sometimes this drafting process takes time, however Envoy management seemed determined to alleviate the mounting pressure they are experiencing to increase compensation and quality of life at Envoy due to the recent ratification of pay rate increases at Piedmont, as well as the PSA deal that was inked in early April. As such, we expected a language pass to be presented to us quickly. After the Agreement in Principle was signed, I called an MEC meeting via teleconference for Wednesday night in anticipation that draft contract language would be prepared and ready for evaluation by the MEC.

On Wednesday, the Company sent their first language pass derived from the Agreement in Principle that was signed by both parties on Tuesday. The language arrived less than two hours prior to the MEC teleconference, so there was not adequate time to thoroughly review and make technical corrections to the language reflecting our agreement prior to the teleconference. During the teleconference I updated the MEC on the progress of negotiations. Although the Agreement in Principle doesn't provide every provision we were seeking, it is a document that we found satisfactory and agreed to, and one that I believe the MEC would ratify.

The Agreement in Principle that Envoy management and your MEC Chairman agreed to includes many positive provisions for the pilots at Envoy without concessions. Some of the highlights are below:

Pay rates would be increased to a level slightly higher than those at PSA with retroactivity to May 15.
Pay-out upon flow through or retirement of accrued sick banks
Improvements to Reserve work rules which provide increased time off and more predictability
A reduction of pilot contribution to health care costs
Several Letters of Intent and agreements including Grievance Settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots
All the recent progress came to a screeching halt late on Friday afternoon.

On Thursday, the MEC Officers, Contract Compliance Committee Chairman, and Envoy ALPA Senior Labor Relations Counsel worked throughout the day to vet and edit the language pass from the company. Late Thursday, we transmitted our revised language, which consisted of minor edits and clean-ups, back to the Company for their review. Then on Friday, I was told by Management's lead negotiator that the Company would be backing out of the Agreement in Principle that was agreed to earlier this week. The excuse given was that AAG had told Envoy management that they had exceeded their authority. At no time during this round of negotiations, and at no time before the Company signed the AIP on Tuesday, did Envoy indicate that their authority was limited or subject to the veto of AAG. This after the fact excuse to welsh on our agreement is in no way consistent with good faith negotiations.

This isn't the first time that our management has demonstrated bad faith in negotiations – a recent example being the failed Reserve Rules change proposals from negotiations ending in January. However, the impact of management reneging on this Agreement in Principle is far more damaging. The credibility of our management has been completely undermined by their actions this week, leaving us unable to trust that they will follow through on future agreements. This behavior is unacceptable.

Whether or not AAG is stepping in to rescind our agreement, or Envoy management ever actually conferred with AAG when they claimed to, is immaterial at this point. They made an agreement and are now repudiating it in bad faith. We cannot continue to pursue good faith negotiations with a management team that is incapable of following through on the agreements they make with the Association.

Envoy management is either unable to identify the mounting challenges facing the viability of the operation, or they are engaged in an effort to turn the pilots against their representatives in a desperate attempt at union busting. It is often assumed that management's actions are nefarious, but this week's events demonstrate that they simply are not committed to negotiate in good faith. Only when AAG recognizes and acknowledges that the pilots of Envoy demand an agreement that provides pay parity relative to the industry measured in real compensation, and not just pay rate tables, will it be possible for us to view it as a partner acting in good faith to offer a career path that meets industry standards. My profound disappointment in our management is shared by your LEC Representatives, the other MEC Officers, and volunteers who work tirelessly to represent the best interests of the pilot group day in and day out.

Originally, when we sent our update last Friday, a communication explaining why we hadn't come to an agreement was in development and slated for distribution. We determined that the signing of an Agreement in Principle, which represented the framework for tangible, durable, ratifiable, and much needed compensation improvements, eliminated the need to distribute that communication. Now that the company has reneged on the signed Agreement in Principle, it seems prudent to share with the pilot group the reasons why we are where we are. Following the transmittal of this update, we are also distributing a communication which was originally slated for distribution earlier this week.

You have the right to be angry.

You have the right to be disappointed.

Your management has failed you yet again.

You deserve proper compensation.

You deserve acceptable work rules.

Your Local Representatives are advocating for you tirelessly.

Your Officers and Committee Volunteers continue to focus on providing the services the pilots require.

I will not rest in my representation of the pilot group, my responsibility and duty to you.



It is never pleasant to be the bearer of bad news. Today marks the latest unwarranted disparagement of Envoy Pilots in a series of adversarial and toxic interactions initiated by Envoy management. We ask you in the meantime to continue to exhibit professionalism.


In Unity,

Steven Pallai

Wow, total BS from Parker and company. I guess this is what we have to look forward to. A deal won’t be a deal when one side refuses to abide by the agreement. It seems Parker has learned from past dealings with a certain union how to renege on agreements.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:28 AM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands