AA flow or Frontier over 40?

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  #11  
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JulesWinfield , 10-14-2022 11:21 AM
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I’d add Spirit to your list. MCO and MIA/FLL. Spirit has Y list where you get paid 200% if they call you. You can list for the Y list anywhere you can get to within a couple of hours that Spirit operates. Once you’re off reserve, you can fly all you want, within the 117 rules.

Either way, ULCC > Regional. If the music stops, you can have a nice career at a ULCC with a real retirement.
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Ldfranklin82 , 10-14-2022 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BcULstDaBlodyWr
Your fastest way to American would be to go to Frontier then apply to American so that’s absolutely the route I would go. Do you currently work for American? If you don’t have 1 year service for AAG then you won’t get the 401k DC first year and that advantage would actually be a loss in aggregate. Would you ever be able to hold WB Captain at American? The shortest timeline to get that once on the seniority list is 10-15 years and that’s a stretch even with the hiring forecasted. Maybe top 2,500 pilots can hold it? So how long it would take for you to get to 15-20%. Miami is junior for American now.

Lastly if the music stops and it will. Would you be okay stuck at Envoy? Or would you rather be at Frontier? I think I would choose Frontier and if you want to, apply to American from there. Straight to Frontier will be difficult training also but I know people who have done it so it’s doable, just be prepared.
Realistically no it's unlikely I'd see WB CA status at American with <25yrs before hitting 65. This is all preliminary research before attending ATP's flight school in Feb. '23. The school offers flow/cadet programs to both Frontier and AA via Envoy. To answer your question if the music stopped and AA never came to fruition I'd rather be on the F9 side with quicker flow rate to a CA seat.
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Ldfranklin82 , 10-14-2022 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Otterbox
Go to Frontier. If you decide you want to go to AA then you’ll be able to get there quicker than the 10+ year flow from envoy…
10yrs+ flow wow that's longer than I expected and I think that just about solidifies my path F9 and then AA or just stay at F9. Thanks!
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Ldfranklin82 , 10-14-2022 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
That may be the case sometime. Currently they have no shortage of good applicants at mainline but are having difficulty having enough personnel (especially CAs) at their wholly owned so they have throttled back flow as much as contractually possible to keep their regional feed going.




Both that and their desire not to kneecap themselves by killing their own feed.
Makes sense, thank-you.
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Ldfranklin82 , 10-14-2022 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JulesWinfield
I’d add Spirit to your list. MCO and MIA/FLL. Spirit has Y list where you get paid 200% if they call you. You can list for the Y list anywhere you can get to within a couple of hours that Spirit operates. Once you’re off reserve, you can fly all you want, within the 117 rules.

Either way, ULCC > Regional. If the music stops, you can have a nice career at a ULCC with a real retirement.
That's an attractive premium pay percentage and makes me take a reconsideration of the low 1st year F/O hourly rate.
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  #16  
Ldfranklin82 , 10-14-2022 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Otterbox
Go to Frontier. If you decide you want to go to AA then you’ll be able to get there quicker than the 10+ year flow from envoy…
Wow I didn't realize the flow was quite that long at Envoy. I think you pretty much solidified my path choice from F9 to AA or just stay at F9 long term. Thanks!
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  #17  
Otterbox , 10-14-2022 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ldfranklin82
Wow I didn't realize the flow was quite that long at Envoy. I think you pretty much solidified my path choice from F9 to AA or just stay at F9 long term. Thanks!
160-176 flows per year... pilot group around 2000 = over 10 years to flow.
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  #18  
AgressivPressur , 10-14-2022 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterbox
160-176 flows per year... pilot group around 2000 = over 10 years to flow.
I think that's probably a fine ballpark, but implying maybe 90% wait around to flow. Won't you have people that can't/won't upgrade to Captain, people leave industry (it happens!), get hired on at SWA or a ULCC or Cargo or United/Delta or Flex/NetJets, Medicals, decide to go be a sim instructor for QOL or base or family, or (help me out this is a brainstorm).

Still lots of movement right? So I'd guess hired now maybe 6-7 years to flow? Still seems too long by today's standards, but all of this tends to correct. Recession!
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  #19  
rdneckpilot , 10-15-2022 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by av1atrx
No disrespect to the OP, but what a time to be alive! Picking your career path is just amazing to me. Good for the next generation. Hopefully they never experience what we went through to get to our respective carriers.
they will just like every other generation of pilots.
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TransWorld , 10-15-2022 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterbox
160-176 flows per year... pilot group around 2000 = over 10 years to flow.
Do you imply few, if any, leave before that to go to other airlines?

I do not believe that is correct.
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