Now,…. WHAT are we voting on????
 

I’m confused. Well, maybe just concerned rather than confused

Between now and August 7th, APA wants us to vote “for” or “against” the AIP. Clearly, this is the AIP that was reached BEFORE United raised the bar with their AIP and BEFORE Robert told us that he would “match” the United deal”. And I suspect that APA’s by-laws force them to put it out for a vote, even as they expect to negotiate a better deal as a result of the United AIP.

So since our AIP is officially up for a vote, if we vote to ratify the current (pre-United) AIP are we then stuck with the terms of that lower-than-standard AIP unless and until Robert finds it to his advantage to sweeten the pot,,…. if ever????

Will Robert change his mind after we ratify the current AIP and say that he is now unwilling to “match” the United deal? And how much of a “match” would constitute a “match” in Robert’s opinion if we ratify the current AIP? Will that “match” involve quality of life issues as well as pay, or just pay, or just SOME pay, or just some Q.O.L. issues - whatever suits him??

What if United does not ratify their AIP? Are we then locked into the current AIP, or worse- our current “amendable” contract if we vote against the AIP?

If we ratify the current AIP, with hopes that we will receive a quick “snap-up”, are we giving too much power to Robert in renewed negotiations?

I think that until we get some guidance from APA, or until we get an actual AIP that actually “matches” the United AIP,….. I’m gonna have to vote no.

May I suggest reading your emails every now and then? They canceled the vote days ago.

Check your email. Sunday night around 8pm Central. The vote has been postponed. Another email yesterday mentioned an erroneous email sent out from the third party vendor for the vote saying that voting is open.

There is no vote at this time. Negotiations are ongoing.

Good god man, check your email.

almost scary how clueless some people are and doing this job.

This is the ONLY email I have received from APA regarding the vote. It came in YESTERDAY!!! I also received voting instructions in the mail today.

Not sure why all you vitriolic responders got the email and I didn’t,…… but maybe respond with a little more class next time.Dear APA Member,



In accordance with the APA Constitution and Bylaws, the 2023 APA - American Airlines Tentative Agreement Ratification Vote is being conducted via electronic ballot. The electronic balloting will be supervised and conducted by the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”). To vote, follow the instructions shown on the back of this page. You may change your vote as many times as you want prior to the end of the voting period. If you decide to change your vote, you may do so using the same procedure and PIN—only your last vote will be counted in the tally. Should you wish to change your vote, please call AAA at 1-800-529-****, Monday through Sunday from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM ET



If you have any questions about the ratification process, please contact Kathy L******, Election Coordinator by phone at 1.817.302.****, Monday through Friday from 9:00 AM to 4:30 PM CT, or by email at [email protected].



If you need a replacement PIN, please call AAA at 1-800-529-****Monday through Sunday from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM ET. The 1-800 number will be available from 9:00 AM EDT until Midnight EDT on Sunday, August 6, 2023.



To review the Tentative Agreement and related information please go to the APA website (www.alliedpilots.org) and click the “Tentative Agreement” image.



Ratification voting opens at 7:00 AM CT on Monday, July 24, 2023 and closes at 7:00 AM CT on Monday, August 7, 2023.



The statement on the ballot is:



On the question of approval of the Tentative Agreement between American Airlines and the Allied Pilots Association?



FOR AGAINST

do you have no friends that you talk to at AA on days off?

First, why are you all being such d1kcs today? Seriously? Why?

Secondly, is that how we do it now?? Determine what the union is doing based on direct or overheard comments in the crew room? And no, I don’t have a lot of conversations with AA friends on my days off. I have friends and interests outside of aviation. It’s just a job to me, not my defining purpose in life. Yeah, I’m THAT guy!

All of the information I have tells me that we’re in a voting period. The only thing I’ve seen to suggest otherwise are the snarkyassed comments from you bozos.

It’s usually wise to check your e-mail.

Yeah, I don't see why people are being so douchey about this. I've missed emails before and my life doesn't revolve around AA on my time off. All of this has gone down in the last 48 hours - it hasn't exactly been weeks.

The e-mail you missed arrived to me on Sunday at 9:06pm eastern.

Thanks, Einstein.

That’s weird, because the one that I copied and pasted, (informing that the vote was on),…. was received yesterday, (Monday).

The company running the vote sent that by mistake. VP Torres has confirmed it and the BOD voted to postpone the vote

I like threads like these. Keep it up!

better check your spam settings and contact info. Sort of an important time to make skew your receiving union communications

I checked in my junk/spam folder. There’s nothing there from APA. As far as checking my contact info, I’ll do that but as I wrote I received an email from APA yesterday telling me how to cast my vote so I doubt if there’s a problem with my contact info.

Check your APA notification preferences. That might be the problem.

Why?

filler.

Again, I received an email from APA yesterday, telling me how to cast my vote. I can’t imagine why I would receive an email telling how to cast my vote but not receive other emails telling me that the vote has been canceled. But I’ll check it anyway.

APA has several email addresses, so you may get some of them but not the other. We’ve probably got 6-8 emails in the last week

A clarification email was sent yesterday after the voting instructions email that said that the vote had been set up by a third party and could not be canceled, but to ignore it.

For some reason you aren’t getting emails from APA. The voting instruction email did not come from them directly.

In one thread, and in no particular order, we get incredulous anger, pointlessness, confusion, frustration, humor (both good natured and mean spirited), miss-information, and good ole’ fashion information. And all on the first page!!! Up to you to decide where you fit in there. But as a forum junky, this is where it’s at! Well done, OP…. Well done.

I can picture a Colin Robinson feeding on threads like these.

that email wasn’t even from APA. That was from a third party company that is/will handle the vote.

I was riding the employee bus once and had an interesting conversation with a greybeard about whether or not we had pilots on furlough. There were well over 1,000 furloughed at the time, and he was adamant there wasn't any. He said, and this is a direct quote "If we had guys on furlough, my buddies would have told me".

There's letting emails slide while on vacay, and there's being completely checked out because you're untouchable and then doubling down and not recognizing it.

It came from

[email protected]

Road Shows and Membership Ratification Vote on Hold

The announcement of the United Agreement in Principle rendered our current Tentative Agreement (TA) un-ratifiable. We know it, you know it, and management knows it, too.

During American Airlines’ second-quarter earnings call on Thursday, Robert Isom and his team proudly touted our airline’s operational and financial performance and prospects for the future. Some of the journalists and analysts on hand asked Robert Isom about the status of our TA. His responses were very consistent – he reiterated his intention to “take care of our pilots” and “match the wages” in the United AIP. During his subsequent State of the Airline remarks, Robert Isom acknowledged his commitment to match wages including retroactive pay. Conspicuously absent from any of his comments: a commitment to adjust the work rules and quality-of-life provisions in the TA in a manner comparable to what Scott Kirby has committed to at United. Robert Isom confirmed his intentions with the proposal his team made and the video he issued to the membership on Friday afternoon.

We do not intend to move forward with a TA that simply adopts the economic aspects of the United AIP – and management’s proposal does not even do that in all respects. We have highlighted to management various quality-of-life and work-rule improvements that would bring us in line with our peers. Most of those items remain unaddressed in management’s most recent proposal. Apparently, Robert Isom’s idea of taking care of our pilots and ensuring parity with our peers at other airlines is that we will be paid comparably while working under more onerous work rules. That won’t fly.

Robert Isom said he wants pilots to “feel great about their jobs.” For that to happen, we need work rules that meaningfully improve our work-life balance and how we perform our job, and we want a management that recognizes our job is more than just the paycheck we receive for going to work. We firmly believe the time to fix our TA by including the necessary work-rule and quality-of-life enhancements is now. Your Board wants to get to a deal we can send to our membership for ratification. We believe management shares the same goal. Our Negotiating Committee is preparing to meet with its management counterparts in an effort to build on the proposal management offered on Friday to get it to the point where it can be approved and sent to the membership for a ratification vote. We believe there is a path to do that, one which should be accomplished in days, not weeks.

As you know, the ratification vote on the current TA is scheduled to open tomorrow, with Road Shows beginning on Tuesday. As noted above, all parties agree the current TA is not ratifiable. Consequently, we will not move forward with a ratification vote and Road Shows on the TA this week. We intend to continue our efforts to reach an amended TA that contains sufficient compensation, work rules, and quality-of-life enhancements comparable to those offered to our peers. Any modifications to the TA will not be done through a Letter of Agreement bypassing membership ratification. Every effort will be made to ensure the membership is the final authority.

We remain committed to delivering an amended TA that can be ratified by our membership. We call on management to join us in doing so as soon as possible.

In Unity,

Reminds me of 24yrs ago when riding the prospective employee bus to interview, there was me (pilot interviewee) and a FA interviewee on the bus. As we pulled up, I asked if she was there for AA or for an American Eagle interview. She replied "Well I don't know, is there a difference???"

I told her as we got off the bus, "Yes, don't have time to explain it to you, but if asked, you want to work at AA" She said "ok thanks for the advice" and never saw her again. Amazing to me that someone can be so uninformed while going to their own job interview.

"As previously announced, the APA Board of Directors voted yesterday to postpone the membership ratification vote on the Tentative Agreement. We are aware that a previously scheduled email went out this morning from our third-party vendor regarding the opening of the voting period. Please disregard that email. In accordance with the Board’s decision, the vote did not open this morning and the voting website is not accessible."
Mon 0930 from secretary treasurer@apa

This^^^. Nothing against the OP, but we have some seriously out of touch pilots. Thank goodness they pulled the vote. I was worried they would send the original TA (pre UAL) hoping we’d vote No…it would have passed.

That made me laugh.

Fairly certain we already have our own group of energy vampires at this company. I seem to always get them on transcons too.

And that's the rub. If they would have sent the updated offer out it would have passed by an even bigger margin. Yet they held it. And that is disgusting. Let the pilots vote, if they are not satisfied with it, it will not pass. Pathetically weak and spineless that they give in to the minority crybabies who want the same contract their buddies have or they'll pout until mommy tells them they're special. The end result is AA gets to keep paying them well below their peers until their hissy fit is over. More money in the company's pockets and less in ours. Proof the APA is controlled by AA, they are withholding a huge pay raise from the pilots even though the pilots would overwhelmingly vote it in.

cause pay is the only thing that matters right?

I just await if a deal is worked out and it’s better than TA and TA with Isom’s first sweeteners to see the flip of attitudes from people wanting to rush to a vote just for the paycheck……

Now if there is no deal, go to NMB, etc then of course the hand wringing will be warranted. But it’s the same exact people who wanted to vote in TA 1.0 so badly( despite what they say now about it….) doing the same exact thing now. Complaining and moaning and screaming black swan event tomorrow…..

I’m not dismissing per se those who saw this same exact thing happen in 2000/2001 and then 9/11 hit. But you can’t live in fear and take whatever scraps the company offers because of the chances of a black swan like 9/11 and/or COVID occurring or the economy crashing. Or we would be stuck with TA 1.0….. There is an absolutely a time limit on how much we can hold out sort of speak. What that time limit is, I have no clue. Short term wise, we do not appear to be close to at least economy tanking.

So how about we all calm down, see what happens and then react?

Um.... no. They WILL backpay us to 1 Jan and it will be 21+%. We can wait....

Dude, that was in Isom's offer, what are you talking about? No wait was required but the APA didn't allow the vote.

not really… they wanted to change the calculation for that 21%. Oh, and yeah, fix the QOL stuff. TTS lockdown and ECS are garbage. Sick accrual must increase with crap STD. The 200k sick payout is purely to buy off senior voters. And the list goes on

The sick payout is going to end up being a nearly one-time payout for AA. Anyone with a meaningful bank is going to retire in the next 5ish years. No pilots from here on out will be getting the max payment with the way our airline operates the schedule and iron-fists manning/QoL.

You need to go to your APA profiles on the webpage and click on "Communication Preferences". Make sure you have everything checked as these emails are coming from different committees. You may only have a few checked and are missing out on important emails.