Every crew (old fart CA's included:) )I've worked with has bent over backwards to help get JS'ers on. 1.5 hour or 15 hour flight.

you bend old fart captains over backwards?

Isom recently stated we carry the most pax out of LAX if you include Alaska. So I guess the answer to your question is YES.

Does that mean Delta can claim to be the biggest out of AMS? United at FRA? Just include all your partner airlines numbers to inflate your own?

Seems to be the trend on this thread. I still say AA is #1 US airline in the South.

So where are the 787s? Unless I’m mistaken, we’ve only received 2 this year. Are we still on track for 9 more??? Doesn’t seem like it.

Another 2 coming this month according to a Boeing forum, getting ready for delivery

Third one is already in service. I got a business class deadhead on it last week.

Jetnet Article has new routes/expanded service through the end of the year

Does it make sense to increase business class seating on a smaller aircraft than the 777, which currently has fewer?
Wouldn't putting 50 or 60 biz business class seats in the 777-200 make more sense and leaving the current configuration of 787 as is?

200 is super old they don’t think it’s worth investing in those.

I think having the 787P makes it easier to operate to AKL and BNE, better range.

But they are spending millions to update the avionics.

Hopefully they do think it’s worth ordering a replacement soon. Assuming AA is planning to park nearly 50 772s in 10 years they should probably be placing a new order with Boeing sooner than later.

I hear the announcement will be sometime Q1 during all the PR hype for the 100 year anniversary. They still haven’t decided on the airframe.

Launch Customers for the Embraer 175XLR

Lol, exactly.

Comac.
Filler

ill take an order of A350s with a side of 220-300’s please.

That wouldn't surprise me; it would be par for the course to tell Airbus we don't want A350s at 2005 version 1 pricing, financed during bankruptcy with the Airbus creditor discount. We want to pay full price for the A350 version 2 at 2025 prices.

The odds of seeing a widebody Airbus at AA are virtually zero. At best, they might begrudgingly order a few more 787s when the time comes to retire the 772s. The rest will likely be outsourced to Oneworld "partners". We have, in essence, no real scope protection.

Yeah I'm really surprised there's not more outrage about this. We basically ship all our widebody flying to LHR for BA Europe connections and now it's gonna be to SEA for AS to operate Hawaii/Asia. Soon we won't even need WB in LAX when we can gift that to our Oneworld friends.

No word from APA on this news. Also, if we are talking about scope. What's the deal with Contour? I've been seeing them an awful lot more in CLT and DFW. Guess they can skirt around the Eagle "commuter" scope on that one? The interline/JV/Oneworld stuff is costing us AA pilot jobs.

Contour is a part 135 operation that has bid for and been awarded Essential Air Service routes. All of their aircraft have 30 seats or less. Neither their routes nor aircraft encroach on scope…

There is also no direct replacement made by boeing for the 777-200. The 777-X is larger than the 777-300

The 'stretch' always seems to sell better (767-300, 777-300, 737-800, 727-200). The 757 is the only exception I can think of. So I think with the 777-X they are starting with the 'stretch' and the 'shrink' will come out later.

There's probably no outrage because we've collectively given up on International scope. Most just show up for work, maximize their paycheck, and go home. I don't blame them. I think our last good chance at fixing INTL scope was the ALPA card drive. APA has demonstrated over the last 20 years that they're just not up to the task. There was an effective anti-ALPA campaign assisted by general apathy. Arguments ranging from "ALPA screwed me 30 years ago" to "it will just be the same guys."


Delta spent a lot of negotiating capital obtaining a "global scope" which forces international growth on the Delta side when their Joint Venture partners add new flying. I have no clue what UAL has in that department but I'm guessing it's something similar.


Here's the AA Joint Venture clause:

Joint Ventures

1. The parties agree to work toward a fair allocation of flying for the Company in Joint Business

Agreements ("JBAs"). The Association has the right to review JBAs and any material

changes going forward. During the parties' Quarterly Scope meetings, the Company will

discuss and receive input from the Association regarding current and anticipated JBAs.


Our international scope is just a formula which looks at international "baseline hours." Effectively AA is required to maintain 90% of the previous year's total International block hours. There are penalties and remedies if they fall below the 90% or 80% threshold. There is zero mechanism for capturing growth flying and no requirement (as far as I can tell) for certain aircraft to perform this flying. It could be done by 321XLRs and remain in compliance.

The scenario I would be worried about if I was planning on a Group 4 CA slot in the next 10 years is the parking of the 772s. I believe we have about 50 321XLRs on order and 47 772s that are supposed to be retired starting in the 2030-2035 timeframe. That's 1,400 Group IV jobs at risk as early as 2030. We have to consider the fact that Isom has delayed our existing order of 787s multiple times because AA struggles to make money internationally. I'm wondering how they will bring on 50 321XLRs plus roughly 26 more 787-9P orders plus a large 772 replacement order of 50 Group IV aircraft. They also have to square this with their number 1 priority, repairing the balance sheet. If I was going to bet money I would guess he will just go with our eventual fleet of +-90 787s and 50 321XLRs with our JV partners operating everything else. Our international flying hours will remain consistent but there's a good chance our total Group IV jobs could be lower in 10 years. The XLRs could service most of S. America, much of Western Europe and the 787s could cover LHR, HND, SYD, etc. Alaska could pick up the slack to the Pacific along with JAL and QA. BA could continue to do the heavy lifting from LHR. I tend to be glass half empty with AA so hopefully I'm dead wrong with this forecast. If we don't address INTL scope with our next contract then we deserve whatever we get.

They have a 'shrink' but it's the -8 and it's only customer is Emirates and it's only for the hot and high performance.

How is that any different than what Delta does in CDG of AMS? AA has LHR and Spain.

Geography. The farther southwest the partner's European hub is the worse it is for the US pilot group's flying prospects. The European partner is going to handle the vast majority of the flying to destinations on the 'other' side of the hub.

This is the problem here and it gets me, the general apathy at this place. If I have to hear "good news those guys are retiring soon" one more time.. when it isn't just the 60+ crowd with that attitude. I believed that statement at first, but I'm seeing a fairly good number of folks, even some with 30+ years here to go adopting it.

I also get the "show up, do work, go home, collect paycheck" mentality, but these same guys that say that don't realize or care that we can actually somewhat influence how management runs the company by what we negotiate in our contract.

That Delta doesn't have another US airline in their alliance with WBs to feed. That's what's concerning.

From AI search so it might not be completely correct --- July 2025 frequencies:

Europe - UAL is operating 760 weekly flights to 40+ destinations
Europe - Delta is operating 700 weekly flights with 33 destinations.
Europe - AA is operating 490 weekly flights with 20 destinations.

Asia - UAL 238 weekly mainline flights....wow
Asia - Dal operates 70-80 weekly flights.
Asia - AA operates 42 weekly flights.

South America - Delta - 45 weekly flights
South America - AA - 55-70 weekly flights

Africa/Middle East - DAL 22 weekly flights
Africa/Middle East - AA 7 weekly flights

Yeah it's frustrating. I don't know if it's just resignation or what. A concerted effort to demonstrate how far behind we are might help. Pilots tend to get fired up when they think they're getting screwed. I think there's a serious lack of awareness. Ask the next 10 pilots you fly with to explain our International scope clause. I would be surprised if more than 2 could even summarize it accurately.

Delta Global Scope 2023

https://d2r1lrrqctgamh.cloudfront.ne...A/NN-23-03.pdf

United’s presence is so bad in South America that they didn’t even bother to list it 😭

No I just ran out of ChatGPT data for the day. Here's an updated list for July 2025. Information compiled from ChatGPT. Could have some omissions.

South America
AA: 55-70 flights per week
UAL : 56 flights per week
DAL: 45 flights per week

Europe
UAL: 760 flights per week
DAL: 700 flights per week
AA: 490 flights per week

Asia
UAL: 238 flights per week
DAL: 70-80 flights per week
AA: 42 flights per week

Africa/Middle East
UAL: 27 flights per week
DAL: 22 flights per week
AA: 7 flights per week

Total international flights per week to the above arenas for July 2025.

UAL: 1081
DAL: 837-847
AA: 594-609

Much of that is due to AA's rapid aircraft parking. The figures would likely be different if the 330s and the 757/767 fleet hadn't been parked, and the 787 deliveries hadn't been delayed. Those numbers will look much different in 10 years when AA will have more widebodies than DAL and the 50 xlrs.

I don’t think this will happen.

Given the current order books it will, 767s don't count.
Delta will have 145 large widebodies (330s, 350s) when their entire order book is delivered and AA will have 156 (787s, 777s).

Do you think we will still have 47 772's in 10 years?

Yes or at the very least a 1 for 1 replacement.
They are investing money in the 777s to keep them going longer and the rest of the 787s will all be here in within the next 5 years. You think they will shrink the fleet in 10 years when between now and then they will have to find flying for the planes we have, the ones they are getting and the 777s they are keeping? That would be growth and then contraction if they shrunk the large WB fleet in 10 years.