FAA stepping in to ORD fight
 

Looks like AA is finally getting the win it needs in ORD. The FAA seems like it's about to slap Kirby down with his petty games in ord. I doubt the brain trust in SkyView has anything to do with this. I would like to think they were this Smart but past experiences show that not to be the case. Either way the FAA might actually be doing their job right for once.

The kirby ballwashers over In the united cult board are already trying to spin this but it's pretty clear to anyone not in the kirby kult that this will end badly for them.

UA has like 50% more gates than us, one could argue (ie their lawyers) that they deserve more flights maybe?

I'm not pro-UA, just saying this may not be such an open and shut case.

Either way the way they planned this out years in advance is pretty impressive, I don't think we've ever done anything that took years to play out lol.

While I agree that this is likely a good thing for AA, it remains to be seen how the FAA handles it.

If all carriers are required to reduce their flights by a certain percentage, then it is fair. Otherwise, its not.

I don’t know why you are celebrating….AA mainline barely flies out of Chicago.

Talk about gaslighting 😂

It will be interesting how Tampon DEI Kirby and the corrupt Chicago politicians react.

Good to know the United guys have a better grasp on our our hub than we do...

They are the pinnacle of the profession especially those with the two year upgrades from sky West and express jet.

I heard AA is closing down the ORD base in 2027

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...struction/amp/

“The airline estimated that it will cut a maximum of 40 arrivals and departures from previous estimates, while United will be required to shave off more than 200 flights for peak summer travel days.”

Probably the best result possible for AA.

As it should be considering it wasn't AA trying to start this mess, it was Kirby's attempt to "de-hub"

Certainly agree

I get the banter between difference pilot groups, but objectively speaking, it’s not “petty games.” If gate allocation is based off utilization and your competitor dumps a bunch of flights into ORD, the normal response is to dump a bunch of flights too.

Kirby told the company in a townhall that he would’ve rather not have gotten into ****ing match in ORD, but AA shoved a bunch of flights into Chicago so he was forced to respond (paraphrasing, of course).

We’ll see how this plays out for our respective carriers

And the reason AA did that was due to a backroom deal Kirby made with Chicago to steal some gates away that went against the post-COVID agreement the airlines had with Chicago. I know the lawsuit got thrown out but it wasn't because American's claim was wrong, it was more due to technicalities. Then the infamous "de-hubbing" slide presentation got leaked and all but forced AA's hand. So yes, it all started with UA and Kirby's ego.

So a slide with metrics and performance numbers showing UA winning ORD that would eventually force AA to de-hub is forcing AA’s hand?

I don’t recall the specific slide you mentioned, but our quarterly townhalls with the E-Team have slides with financial and operational numbers showing how United did compared to the rest of the industry. Doubt it was some sort of slide that was made specifically with the intention to force AA to do anything. If the slide was from the townhall, it’s public. If it was leaked from a management meeting then it was never meant for anyone (including AA) to see. Regardless, only AA decides how to react.

The reality is, Kirby can’t make anyone do anything they don’t want to. If AA management decided to react the way they did, that falls on them. Bobby Ice runs AA, not Kirby.

That said, idk Chicago politics. UA is the headquartered in Chicago so it would make sense for United to be favored. If UA started a war in DFW, the local politicians would probably side with AA. Same with ATL and Delta. Just the way it is

So what you are saying is you basically do not know the history at all of how this all started. Why are you in this thread and what exactly as a devote Kirbylite what are you defending? That United shouldn't have taken the lion share of cuts? Why?

I’m saying that some “leaked” slide of AA de-hubing ORD did not make Isom grow ORD by hundreds of flights. I’m also saying that it wasn’t “petty” that UA responded to AA by also adding flights.

I didn’t look into the details of the flight cuts so I won’t comment on that. Whatever comes of it, management will manage and I’ll fly the metal.

Some of you guys get wrapped all around the axel about Kirby. Anyone that goes against whatever narrative is popular at AA for the day is a “Kirbylite”. It’s just strange.

All this is business, not personal. As pilots, we’re all on the same side. Yet, some of yall make bashing UA, Kirby and UA pilots a personality trait. Relax, gents. It’s not that serious

It’s a huge strategic win for American management. I’m glad they’re not boasting about it. We know SK absolutely would be. AA intentionally pushed more connections through DFW-CLT-MIA after Covid as a strategy to convince those cities to award AA more gates—40 new gates awarded in DFW, 17 new gates in MIA, CLT estimate is around 10. They almost got burned in ORD by the city of Chicago. AA will be back to the amount of gates they wanted in ORD by next year.

Who is taking this personal? Kirby started this by trying to dehub American by stealing their gates with his backroom deal with the city of Chicago. 100% on your golden boy here. He wanted to dehub AA and it was United is the Who added flIghts first, forcing AA to respond in kind. You're just looking one step back when this started several steps.ago. invite you to do some research.

The above quote is just one instance of a UA pilot bashing AA in this very thread for no reason.

Anyone who takes anything personally on this site definitely needs to touch grass. However, the idiom don’t dish it out if you can’t take it comes to mind.

Kirby has played a loud and boastful tune that some take to heart, including bashing other airlines openly.

I’m also glad AA management is not boasting about this win, because I know UAL management would be cringe and bashful had the outcome turned out differently.

Some of yall certainly sound like it’s personal. Like the guy slept with your wife or something. Kirby can’t be mentioned in a sentence without it being attached to cross-dressing, using tampons, or being trans. I get it, the guy is boastful, but he shouldn’t live rent in your head.

I also get what you’re saying about UA adding flights first. However, the UnitedNext plan was to grow in all of the hubs. ORD is unique that 2 carriers call it a hub and how the airport allocates the gates (this pre-dates the turf war). UA was always going to grow ORD which would’ve forced AA to respond. Again, it wasn’t out of pettiness, it was planned from the inception of UnitedNext. Should a company not grow and expand because another company would hate it?

Yeah, I won’t speak for anyone. I don’t get why some people do that. Kirby is boastful. He admitted to it as well and followed up with other CEOs are too, he just does it publicly. For better or for worse, CEOs are all cut from similar cloths. I guess you have to be if you’re gonna run any Fortune 500 company. I accept it as a reality of life. Kinda like taxes and death. Doesn’t mean o agree with it, but it is what it is

The ironic thing is it almost definitely led to a worse outcome for United in Chicago. I'm not even sure the gate allocation strategy was even on AA's radar until UA management started bragging about all the gates it was getting, all the flights it was adding and that AA would eventually be force to de hub ORD. If AA wasn't paying attention before, it definitely was after.

Now it looks like AA will be getting some gates back next year. Funny how things work out sometimes.

I don’t totally disagree with you, but I will add that AA had to have known about the losing gates with or without the boastfulness of SK

Trust me, none of us here will vouch for the competency of our management.

You do know that you are talking about the airline that lost JFK slots because they forgot about them right? 😂

It’s my belief Kirby and his wife got their cheeks done by the same plastic surgeon.

Tell me more about the backroom deal.

See previous posts.

It's just wild conspiracy type thinking that SK drew up a backroom deal with the city. I'm no SK fan but come on, that didn't happen.

What most likely happened is that UA saw the gate allocation method and decided to make a play to gain more gates/market share in ORD.

It isn't at all, it actually happened. The post COVID agreement was reneged. This is what started the mess at ORD and why the FAA rightfully cut the most flights out of UA.

In a meeting to determine flight cuts at ORD for the Summer season, United’s head of network planning Patrick Quayle said, “I think we can all agree Robert Isom is not Robert Crandall”.
https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...jw&oe=69ED8B63

Nothing says class like personal attacks on your rivals CEO.

It was widely reported last year in both the Chicago and aviation press that the city initiated a review of gate allocation at the request of United Airlines. It may be a stretch to call it a backroom deal, but reallocation was initiated because UA took action. Presumably SK had little to do with this and it was driven by whomever is running UA ORD ops on a day to day basis.

For whatever reason, AA thought that the gate reallocation process would be placed on hold during terminal construction. They claim they believed that so strongly that it's why they sued. Obviously the judge thought differently. Whether they believed all that because they're incompetent or they were lied to? I doubt anyone on APC knows. My personal unfounded conspiracy theory is the Chicago Department of Aviation did what it did to sell more Jet A at the widly inflated prices they charge. If you've been there in the last year, you know.

Ironically, it probably mattered little between the FAA order and the new results of the reallocation process: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/tran...ited-american/

Looks like AA will get back 3 of the 4 gates they lost so now G will mostly be AA RJs again. Maybe they can take the carpet off the American Eagle logo.

“I want to talk about -- talk about proportionality and choices people are making. Our strategy was to grow all of our hubs and invest across the board. American chose differently. And if you -- American, if you look, chose to grow Austin; they chose to grow Charlotte, Miami, Dallas; they chose not -- they chose not to grow Chicago.” - PQ

Basically what I said before I saw the transcripts. Nothing petty, just intentional planning and execution of UnitedNext.

I don’t know if that’s a personal attack? He wasn’t criticizing his looks or personality. He was correctly pointing out that AA has been an operational and strategic disaster ever since Isom took the helm. I would be hard pressed to come up with even one significant win during his tenure. Almost every strategic move has been a failure.

It seems as if even the analysts have stopped asking the hard questions during earnings calls. They just lob up some softballs for Isom and team. The industry has evolved from the big three to the big two and everyone else.

Let’s see how we do tomorrow. UAL increased revenue by 10%+ and booked net income of $700 million. Many thought they were growing too fast and in an era of global uncertainty they would lose money hand over fist. Here we are in a war time environment with a fuel crisis and they are still printing money. Maybe an army of high CASM RJs flying to low $ markets and farming out a large chunk of our international network to JV partners wasn’t the winning formula.

I think Kirby is right, there's only room for 2 premium carriers. I'm not sure where that leaves us, but consolidation of the rest of us is a foregone conclusion. Our financials will be so depressing tommorow.

It should be mentioned that before coming to UA, Patrick Quayle worked at AA for 10 years (according to his LinkedIn page). He likely interacted with Isom during those 10 years.