EXELLENT question. I believe this has never been done before. Anyone know of any precedent?

Yes, it is a good question. I would hope that a judge wouldn't insert himself into the competitive process to that extent. If so, the others (UAL, DAL, etc.) would scream bloody murder. A heyday for corporate lawyers.

But, who knows? At this point, anything seems possible.

More outsourcing coming up.

Absolutely, and what did you expect? Almost all airlines outsource their heavy maintenance. They will also dump the old airframes and with their new fleet, their maintenance costs will be reduced significantly. This is why B6 enjoys such an advantage over competitors. They have the newest and most fuel efficient fleet. Although their airplane MNX costs are going up as the fleet ages. But they sell old airplanes or send back the leased airplanes and take delivery of a new replacement. AMR will be in the same boat when they shed all the old airframes and take delivery of the new ones.

I hate to whiz in your blue kool-aid, but let's be fair. Jet Blue's sub-par labor costs (especially the pilots) also contribute mightily to any (so-called) "advantage over competitors." Thanks for raising the bar, guy.

Good job helping the company, though. Truly admirable. You can be happy (and poor) in retirement knowing that your sacrifices once helped create a cost advantage for your previous employer, whose executives became wildly wealthy as a result, and who now gives not one sh!t about your well-being.

With all do respect, I have many friends at DAL that have equal or better longevity. My overall pay, seniority and quality of life is better than theirs. JetBlue compensation is just fine. Yes, our retirement can improve to industry standard, however my pay is just fine relative to all my friends at other legacy carriers with equal longevity.

If you understood how JetBlue compensates you wouldn't be so critical. The premium pay system encourages a productive work force. It is the reason, B6 is the most productive work group in the industry. We are compensated very fairly, yes it could improve, but in less than 10 years we have become the 5th best paid pilot group of all Majors. Averaging only about $2500-3000 a year less than the Delta Pilot group.

My goal is not to raise your bar at DAL in fact, all I want is a competitive salary, work rules and retirement, but more importantly I want an airline that grows organically and survives in this crazy industry for my career. The last thing I want is an "industry leading contract" only to lose it in the long run, due to the standard airline industry cycle...i.e. industry leading contranct, eventually bankrupt, wash repeat.

I have not been critical of your pilot group in any way, I suggest you do the same. Stop blaming other's in the industry for your woes or your stagnation. You chose Delta, I chose JetBlue, others chose Southwest, pick your poison of an airline and live with your choice.

"My goal is not to raise your bar at DAL in fact, all I want is a competitive salary, work rules and retirement, but more importantly I want an airline that grows organically and survives in this crazy industry for my career. The last thing I want is an "industry leading contract" only to lose it in the long run, due to the standard airline industry cycle...i.e. industry leading contranct, eventually bankrupt, wash repeat."


Do you understand how this is achieved in this industry? (historically). It's called pattern bargaining and you have raise to your bar so the next pilot group can raise theirs by referencing yours. Then when it's your turn for a new contract, you point to the other pilot groups bar (which you previously help raise) and demand better, wash repeat.

Unfortunately, a pilot group has to collectively grow a pair and demand better pay, and when they don't, it hurts the whole group.

Do you not understand the concept of "pattern bargaining?"

You have already reaped the rewards of those who have bargained for their pay scales. If not for them, your salary would be even lower--and your retirement, even crappier (if that's even possible).

How much lower? Who knows. It sounds to me like you're happy to feed your kids beanie weenies, rammen noodles, and soylent green every night just for the privilege of wearing a smurf costume to work.

Be that as it may, we have a responsibility to at least pay lip service to "raising the bar" for other pilot groups...after all, a rising tide lifts all ships.

You're gonna have to quit quoting from that bogus chart that you put up. Three or four guys chimed in as to how flawed it is,(not to mention the very authors of the chart) you never responded, and now here you are referencing that same data.

I think you've got to cut him some slack. He's a one man Jet Blue cheerleader, intoxicated on blue juice. Jet Blue will never merge, their pilots compensation will soon blow Delta away and they are invincable.

Why ruin the dream of dreams ? :rolleyes: