Arbitrators have always, and will always, use that dreaded word you hate when they craft an integration. It's just the nature of the beast. He takes a snapshot of the date and bases a lot of his decision on the career expectations of both airline pilot groups.

What are my career expectations? No clue at this point - but given the difference in size, routes, financials, pilot demographics - very, very different from the TWA pilot group at the time.

There is simply no comparison. TWA in its last days was in no way, shape or form comparable to AA today, BK or not. I'm not justifying the crappy and unfair treatment you guys got, but USAir merging with AA is in no way comparable to AA's picking and choosing TWA's assets, which were far less than what AA has today.

Bingo, thanks.

Lumberg,
I am surprised that you posted all of this on this open forum. We were asked not to post anything at all on C&R, so it would be logical that forum would fall into that request also. What are u a management hack?

That info is already all over the Internet on several pilot related sites along with many aviation forums sites. He could have just got it from somewhere else and reposted it.

Every merger brings different ingredients to the stew. No single past merger (or asset acquisition) will be used as a "model" should this one come to fruition. Agreed that AA's situation of market, assets, debts and future stand-alone have ZERO resemblance to where TWA was when their assets were acquired and the resultant job offers to their employees.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Lumberg is an AA employee. Maybe Inatech, but definitely not AA.

If he is a management hack, then he should be bringing in "the Bobs" to help with AA's bankruptcy.


Don't forget, with everything you do, you must ask yourself:

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...O-P5kpuPPdXghQ

And what a screw job it was.

TWA pilots currently with seniority numbers around 8000 flying as CAPTAINS. Reserved and guaranteed CAPTAINS positions for their group. Super-seniority bidding ahead of nAAtives in STL.

Oh the humanity.

The nAAtives with 8000 seniority are 12 year narrow body FOs commuting to reserve somewhere across the country and looking at another 10-15 years to upgrade.

Please give us more details on the "screw job" the TWA pilots got and some other gut wrenching tales of victimhood worthy of a Dr. Phil sob fest.

Coffee----Meet Kettle
 

Wrong. Not all arbitrators use that word----APA used it liberally when AA bought TWA, to seemingly justify stapling 60% of TWA's 2400 pilots---including myself. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, are you sure you want an arbitrator (which AA & their 'unions' ensured TWA employees wouldn't have access to) to objectively (or subjectively) decide yours?

You say your career expectations are 'very, very different' from the TWA pilot group at the time AA bought TWA (all of it, not just pieces); well answer me this: How many numbers are you away from the most junior CA at AA? I'm guessing if you're a '99 hire about 4000+. I was 250 numbers away from M80/717 CA at TWA, and with annual attition at 200+, do the math. Don't even think for a second your career expectations are superior, higher or more valuable than mine were. Instead of upgrading to CA at a major airline, I was stapled, furloughed and then had to suffer the insult of the likes of YOU coming to STL to fly in MY seat while I got furloughed.

'No comparison', you say? I disagree.

That is certainly not the case for the vast majority of them, and I think you know it. That's some nice spin, though.

If nothing else, I'm glad that my post got you wound up enough to join APC...or at least create an alter ego profile on APC.