Tell Me Doug Isn't Looking For a Free Ride
 

What advantages do you offer for a merger led by US Airways during American’s bankruptcy, as opposed to an American-led merger after American emerges from bankruptcy?

Parker: “One certainty – for whatever reason, part of how American has gotten themselves into this predicament is hoping that the world stands still while they get other problems fixed. And the world doesn’t stand still.* There’s no guarantee, while we’re here today, that we’ll be here a year from now to do this. A lot of things can happen that none of us know.

“But I know in this business that things could go on that could make it so that this deal could never get done. Once everybody is out in it’s a public company and American, okay, let’s merge, nothing can stop at that point a United or Delta from saying why don’t we just go acquire US Airways?

“We’re fiduciaries. If our company’s for sale, it’s for sale, and we’ll sell it to the highest bidder, and American probably wouldn’t win that. That’s the big one – the certainty of getting it done. That could be incredible. That would be obviously a situation where it would be hard for American to ever recover from, if United or Delta got themselves to that size of scale and American had passed on this opportunity.

“On top of that, there are a number of things you can do in bankruptcy that you can’t do outside it. We don’t actually know what all of those are because we haven’t had the chance to go through all of American’s confidential information.

“I’m certain that if we were working together that we would clean up and integrate before we emerge instead of after the fact saying, ‘Gosh, I wish we’d taken care of that in bankruptcy. Because bankruptcy does provide that opportunity, to make sure you’ve got all your contracts where you want them and have the ones the want in place and don’t have the contracts that aren’t economical. That’s what it’s for.

“It’d be a shame to go through that process and then find yourselves wanting to merge while you’re at the state where you hadn’t done that.”

When you talk to bondholders/creditors, what questions do they raise most?


He is not in this for AAer's or his own folks for the matter either!

......and yet AMR endlessly continues to drive their employees deeper into Parker's arms.

Mind boggling it is. :confused:

As you said earlier, we'll have to wait and see the lbo. I just think Mr. Parker is a sleaze for trying to do this on the backs of AAer's and his own team. Who's the real opportunist here? Rhetorical of course......it's Doug!!!!

I'll also add that I don't think much of the union presidents for attending a competitor's shareholder's meeting. Well beyond the treachery line in my opinion! I mean when is the last time anyone saw pilots, FAs or other union leadership sitting in the shareholder meeting of a competitor?

One can only surmise then that the alternative to Mr. Parker must be truly egregious.

In reading the above paragraph and how the "union president" phrase is said (as from an external source),it's clear to me it wasn't written by a "union pilot". If this is "treachery", then it's looks like an "equal and opposite reaction" .

Look, you can take my comments however you wish, but Captain Bates is a traitor pure and simple! Laura Glading is simply an idiot, but she's the problem child of the APFA.

So when Doug refers to "contracts" just what do you think he's referring to? Management doesn't have contract outside maybe the top 10 officers. He is not referring to suppliers since AA has already rested the gains there. This is a pure power play to get the labor contract Doug wants.

It's tough to wake up and realize you've sold yor soul and your membership down the river for thirty pieces of silver!

I'm sorry Tom, but I simply cannot not notice your disingenuous motivations. Your opening post doesn't shoot down a U merger, just one NOT controlled by AMR management, yet you paint Parker as the devil.

This makes no sense. Well, actually it does if one is of the belief AMR management has no problems with a U merge as long as they ca$h in as the controllers. Personally, I have a pretty good idea you must be one of the potential ca$hee's and that must be your motivations here.

Good luck, but as far as voting AA pilots, I doubt you'll find many kindred spirits around. ;)

Simple question, are you paid by the provisions of the APA contract?

AMR Corp. (AAMRQ) Chief Executive Officer Tom Horton asked an ad hoc bondholder group to study his plan for a stand-alone American Airlines before reviewing a possible merger for the bankrupt carrier, two people familiar with the matter said.
The group, which holds about $700 million in AMR debt, supports that sequence for its review, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the meeting was private. Horton expressed frustration with attention being given to a pending US Airways Group Inc. (LCC) merger bid, the people said.
The process discussed at yesterdays session in New York is the one being followed in AMRs bankruptcy, with the company agreeing to consider options after detailing its own strategy to stay independent. The ad hoc group organized outside of U.S. Bankruptcy Court and isnt obliged to follow the same steps.
Hortons meeting was his first with the bondholders, who formed two such groups in an effort to gain leverage and reap the largest return. Chief Restructuring Officer Beverly Goulet told bondholders about two weeks ago that AMR will win more union concessions than US Airways, and that it should be allowed to negotiate a merger after leaving Chapter 11, the people said.
As part of his presentation, Horton cited evidence that he said showed Fort Worth, Texas-based Americans stand-alone plan is working, including an industry-leading improvement in a benchmark revenue measure last month, according to the people.
US Airways
US Airways CEO Doug Parker told shareholders at the carriers annual meeting today in New York that the Tempe, Arizona-based airline was making great progress toward a merger. Restructuring in bankruptcy wont be enough to fix Americans weaknesses, he said.
We are completely confident in the strength of our plan for success, American said in a statement in response.
The bondholder groups wont meet with US Airways until after a judge decides whether American can reject existing union contracts and negotiate new terms that will help cut annual labor costs by $1.25 billion, people familiar with their strategy have said. AMR filed for bankruptcy on Nov. 29.
US Airways has told bondholders it would provide greater returns from its labor accords with Americans unions, flexibility with plane leases, and a projected $1.2 billion in annual savings and new revenue in a merger.
To contact the reporters on this story: Jeffrey McCracken in New York at [email protected]; Mary Schlangenstein in Dallas at [email protected]
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Ed Dufner at [email protected]; Julie Alnwick at [email protected]

I can't say I'm all too excited about this merger since it's going to be paid for in part by US employees. We (west) will get an hourly pay raise, but lose most of the good things in our contract to pay for American pilot's retirement. That being said I understand that in the long run I will benefit because it will create a stronger airline.

From an American pilot perspective, you'd have to be a fool not to support this merger. Parker for all of his faults is leaps and bounds above current AA management. The combined carrier will be far stronger than either standing alone. If it goes to arbitration, the American pilots because of their better contract and widebodies will take the upper spots in the seniority integration.

So Tomahawk are you a fool or am I missing some hidden reason or agenda on your part?

G

Irony, irony. US Airways pilots complaining about taking a hit to bring AA pilots out of a 1113 contract. Just who do you think took a hit with the AWA/ US merger? If we had gotten a joint contract ( we will not see one now) it would have been a windfall for the East pilots at the expense of the West. As a matter of fact, the only pilots that have benefitted from this deal have been the East.

Just sitting on the sidelines waiting for the fun to begin.

It will be interesting to see if he addresses how his pay rate is defined.

That's right. The original AWA management team excluding Mr. McClleland (very smart guy, unfortunately passed from cancer) has become verrrrrryyy wealthy. Notice I don't say overpayed, since compared to other CEOs that don't know what they're doing, they're not.

East pilots, still have jobs, new aircraft placed east (growth), and even have their own personal union that only catters to their pilot group.

West pilots: What do we have for youuuu!

The Price is Right losing horn - YouTube

Ohhhhh, I'm sorry. Don't feel too bad we have some nice consolation prizes. Like this Costco bulk pack of KY Lube! One big Tube O' Lube for each future merger!

G

Growth, that's funny. On the June 2005 bid the east had 2782 line pilots. This month's bid had 2688 line pilots and 164 of them are on the E190, which doesn't count toward the min fleet. For good reason. So that is 258 less pilots on the 737 and bigger A/C, or about 9%. We have take more A330s which help the numbers and the E190 fleet has added some management pilots, but it's hardly "growth".

The west may have contracted more, I don't have your numbers. But one thing have to remember is that the east was massively understaffed when the merger was announced. Don't believe me? Go look at the pilots per A/C on the Nicolau award.

The west pilots tend to judge this merger by comparing what they have to what they had back in May 2005. The problem with this view is that most believe you would not been able to hold on to what you had. Doug Parker, the CEO of AWA, not the original US Airways, has said that over and over and that we are all better off with the merger than without. That you indeed would not have been able to hold on to what you had. What the east had that helped things look better was the start of the attrition before the age 60 rule changed.

I think we can all agree that without the US/AWA merger neither company would be in a position today of looking at taking over AA. Whether that helps or hurts us, I don't know.

He is in this for the stockholders and himself, just as AA management is.

So why is it that the east get's all the benefits while the west furloughs, downgrades, stagnates and has to fight a union that is trying to destroy them? Ahh don't bother, the whole world knows what scum you all are.

I agree, that in the long run the US/AWA merger helped both companies. The east compared to the situation they were in has seen the majority of the benefits. I was holding a decent line and we were hiring 20 a month prior to the merger. Since the merger, I've moved backwards. We in the west are expected to take the majority of the pain with the mergers because we are the younger group. I don't mind a 50/50 relationship, but this 10/90 stuff is bull*(%^.

G

As for the east benefits, our attrition outran our shrinkage while the west's has not. For the union, there was an election and USAPA won. Simple really.

I understand why you feel that way and like I said you may have shrunk more, I don't know your numbers. But if you look at ours, we didn't grow, as I told cacti, our attrition finally outran our shrinkage.

You are full of shiite, had it not been for the east pilot's not one west pilot would have seen the street, that is a fact. You owe us 190/757 flying and there are a330's you didn't have as well as expanded international flying since the merger that we can't participate in. Another fact is every federal judge has said the west has been clearly harmed by the east's actions, yet they all pass the buck.

AMR Bankruptcy thread ....

The bottom line here is that the company is indeed in a far better position now than either was before the merger. The East would have been gone and AWA would have had to find another partner to merge with. If there was a single SLI and a joint contract both pilot groups would have benefitted from this. Instead, we have management as the sole winners in this contest.

With an AA/US merger both pilot groups (all 3 if you count US as 2) will benefit eventually. The SLI procedure is straightforward and the joint contract is covered by the APA term sheet. It may not be an instant win for the pilots since this term sheet is concessionary by in the long run, say 5 years from date of merger, it will be a good thing for all.

I still only have this as a 75% chance of going through.

I think the odds of an AA LCC merger happening in BC are pretty slim. AA is financing their way through it with their own money and don't want to be acquired. AA will, one way or another, secure labor agreements 20% Cheaper than Parker. Horton will, successfully I believe, convince the UCC to allow AA to exit with these cheaper agreements and then pursue merger partners that may or may not include merging with LCC.

+1 this is fairly spot on.

So, outside of a small pay raise, what's the benefit to AAer's. With a combined pilot group numbering 15,000, where the growth? The only movement as I see it will be due to attrition. Where is the upside? We would actually move into a sustained contraction phase and not growth!

Tomahawk - you might have missed my question. Do you get paid by the rates established in the Green Book(APA contract)?

No he is management or AirCon. Tramahawk is not a pilot for American Airlines. He lied about it. He agreed to call himself an industry analyst.

BlueHorshoe says book away from American Airlines June 22, 2012.

Unless the Dallas wimp base votes for this POS turd that AMR floats. I'd rather see a liquidated AA than to see Tramahawk and his beloved Tom Horton and John Hale (coolaid drinking VP Ops Chief pilot) exit as a stand alone and reap massive stock options. that is until the stock tanks on exit.

I've got enough in savings. I'll enjoy watching this ship sink, with AMR mis-management onboard!

Bankrupt and arrogant.

Nice!

I didnt miss the question, the answer is yes.

If you really have the savings as you say, do the rest of us AAer's a favor and quit, because we'd really ENJOY watching AA emerge stronger!

Secondly, you don't have a clue as to who I am any more than I know what you do. Beside, I don't have to prove myself to you to make you feel better or worse.

GQ -- Normally I'm on the same page as you, but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I don't agree that Parker is leaps and bounds above current AA management. They are very similar. The only difference -- AA management is being very honest about the cuts they are trying to make. Doug is trying to sneak the same cuts in with a smile and a little bit of lube. But make no mistake, his cuts will be every bit as severe (and probably longer lasting as what we give up, we will never get back).

I agree with you that this will make a stronger carrier, but really will that benefit us? We (both East and West pilots) are flying at a solvent, economically viable carrier. And yet we are being forced into concessions -- like you said, to fund the AA pilots' retirement. Doesn't sound right to me... Let them fund their own retirement... I'm afraid we are taking five steps backwards and we'll never recover.

But, then again, what do I know -- I support the NIC, AOL, and I voted for Eric (so obviously I'm too idealistic, and don't see the "big picture" :rolleyes: )

Anyone who believes that most of the upper management of almost any significant publicly traded US carrier is in this to 1) run a great airline or 2) do anything for the people in the company is living in some kind of distorted dreamland. They are in it to make money for themselves. The endless bankruptcies demonstrate that they are not in it for the shareholders.

The days of trying to be the best airline ended long ago. Now it's about being the cheapest operator in order maximize short term benefits for upper management. No more. No less.

So you're saying you are not in management in any way(CKA, Flt Ops, Training, Safety)?

Depending upon what school house job guys occupy their pay rate might be established by the Green Book.

Think, one day soon you may be working with that bunch.....Good luck :)

The other guys are right, thread creep again. See you PM.

CactusMike-I'm putting odds at less than 50%.

I'm willing to bet he is one of the clueless hacks hired during the previous VP of Flight's tenure.

No senior Manager at AMR hired anyone below he/she that could be a future threat to their own position because the subordinate could viewed as more capable than their boss. The only recent change to that behavior was the hiring of the current VP of Flight who is sharp and a good leader, but with about as much power to do any real good as my dog. IMHO, he was hired because the FAA had enough of flight hiring inexperienced Chief's. that is one major reason why I want the LCC deal to go through.

The AA Flight Department has needed a complete flushing for 20 years. As I said in a previous post, I believe the entire TWA FLT DEP should have sent all of the DFW staff back to the line. Personally, I've gotten real tired of endless mispelled, badly formatted, incorrect and revised 3 times, company bulletins that some hack at DFW screwed up in between playing rounds of 9 square Suduko during their typical 10:30am-3:15 "workday".

TH's latest post proves my point. "Douggie is in it for himself" No S%%t genius.

I could care less if he likes me or my fellow pilots. If I want a real friend, I'll dress my dog in a manager's suit.

Which TH are you referring to? Tom Horton or Tom-a-hawk58, I can't differentiate between the two!

The current VP of ops was the St Loius Chief pilot. Then he was promoted to Head Company Negotiating commitee. He and John Conrad. From there he was promoted to VP of Ops.
Since that time he has blown so much smoke up our #@* about cannon shot growth, IPADS next week, contract in weeks not months. It's just sad to see someone who's been at AA that long get fooled everytime by this management team. Sad. He has done nothing, nothing in his tenure the last 2+ years. He says he's 100% behind Tom Hortons stand alone plan. I am sure he is a nice man and probably a super grandfather. But he has done nothing. He has stood in his office while Rome is burning.
He should retire. He is a fool.
The FAA has nothing to do with VP Ops selection. John Hale replaced "The Clerk" Hetterman, the most spineless do nothing CP we've ever seen.

How many have you worked for?

More than you!

"The FAA has nothing to do with VP Ops selection. John Hale replaced "The Clerk" Hetterman, the most spineless do nothing CP we've ever seen. "


Just tying bits and pieces of intel from different sources. Of course they don't officially have anything to do with the hiring of the VP.

Maybe they didn't, but the current jr VP birdman was told by a senior VP fine collector that he was "out" of the running. After lunch with OurPay, he as called later by the Senior VP fine collector and congratulated on his promotion to Chief iPad cheerleader.

Ourpay was never that smart or a good leader. He was forced by somebody to make a change.

Maybe Tomahawk could tell us the brilliance of making a Domestic FO a Chief Pilot where they fly B777's. I'm sure the questions about Siberian diverts were fielded with the utmost knowledge. Same went for a clueless fool at a tropical crewbase. That kind of stuff got the Federales attention and enough was enough.

Oh, and also, ask Tomahawk how close AA got to the Federales OKC guillotine. ;)