From the American Airlines VP Ops/Chief Pilot
 

Who is the Chief at AA you ask? Well he was the Head of pilot negotiations for the Company against the union when he took the job of VP of OPs and chief of chiefs.

Here's his latest on why we must vote yes to the companies last best final offer.

To be clear I (7576FO) voted NO!


Good morning, this is CA John Hale with the Flight Department Hotline for Friday, August 3.

I was planning to take this hotline and talk about something near and dear to every pilot’s heart, airplanes — some of the details on the incremental 777-300ER orders we confirmed today to demonstrate the growth that’s already taking place and an update on some of the milestones we’re seeing in our new Airbus fleet. However, it’s been brought to my attention that there is some misinformation out there about the TA and it would be a disservice to you if I didn’t take this time to address that instead.

Jim Ream and I have had a number of productive meetings and conversations with pilots around the system over the last few weeks. They’ve been candid and truthful, with the ultimate goal of helping pilots understand just what a critical decision we’re facing. However, it’s apparent from the report outs of some of those meetings that we weren’t successful in clearly communicating the next steps the company would pursue if the TA does not ratify.

There is no question that our goal is to achieve a consensual agreement with our pilots. It’s in the best interests of everyone, both the company and you all. And that’s why the company made the moves they did in the TA that’s in front of you — including the agreement to support an equity stake in the new American. We want to reach a consensual agreement without the judge’s ruling.

But let me be perfectly clear, contrary to what you may be reading or hearing, saying no to this TA means one thing — the company will ask for Judge Lane’s permission to abrogate the current pilot contract. That isn’t what we’d prefer, but it will be the only choice we have left. So there is no confusion, if the contract is abrogated, the company will immediately begin implementation of the April Term Sheet so that we can start realizing the savings necessary for a successful restructuring. A unilateral implementation of the April Term Sheet is not the outcome the company or I am hoping to achieve. But, if a consensual agreement is not reached, we will not wait any longer to implement the changes necessary for our company to successfully restructure and compete. We will of course continue to negotiate in good faith with APA in an attempt to achieve a new agreement consistent with our legal obligations. But, that will take time, and implementation of the April Term Sheet changes would begin and would remain in effect until a new contract is agreed upon and put in place. The April Term Sheet would also be the new starting point for those negotiations, not the terms of our tentative agreement.

A no vote can lead to only one thing — uncertainty and more pain. A failed TA and contract abrogation won’t bring an expedited, better deal, as some would have you believe. As I said at the beginning, this isn’t the message I wanted to focus on today, but given the stage we’re currently in, I could not in good conscience ignore some of the misinformation that’s circulating. This is your life, your future, and your decision. The TA before you includes substantial improvements over the April term Sheet, and represents the limits to which we can responsibly go to meet APA’s and the pilots’ concerns. A failed ratification will take us down the path I’ve just described.

Contrary to another misperception from the meeting, the company has made no decisions regarding consolidation at this time. As we have communicated previously, we are undertaking a thorough and objective evaluation of all alternatives and options regarding consolidation.

The facts are before you and I can’t stress enough how important it is you understand the paths in front of you.

Thanks for joining me today. We’ll talk again next week.

Here are some of the many reasons AA pilots are voting NO against the company's LBFO:

Here are my reasons for the no vote:

6-year agreement turns to ten - or longer

Onerous wording and incomplete language

The supposed "pay increases" are actually pay reductions when one considers inflation and medical costs

There's no serious replacement for the retirement beating we are being served

It comes from an untrustworthy entity (liars)

Permanent "B" scale A319 pay

No real improvement in reserve

It is 100% concessionary

It is all one-sided favoring AMR

If we agree to this it will take literally years to recover. Most on property don't have that kind of time.

History will repeat itself. Labor makes concessions. Executives line their pockets.

Is this enough?


Well! I ask myself as a judge, if a company presents me with a 1113 and says this is what we need to survive, then adjusts it later with higher pay etc: etc: And if pilots turn down the new 1113 offer, do I then ram the original 1113 down their throats, when in fact, this company can afford to give them more, HHHHMMMMMMMMMMM?????

As a pilot, I wonder, take the new 1113, then negotiate a new contract after emergence from BK. Say no and possibly have the original 1113 imposed and then what? emerge and start negotiating, so far, what has negotiating been in the past? Years of negotiating to no avail. Seems to me, say Yes take the better deal and go into negotiating after BK then at the very least, live with a better deal for 5 or 6 years.

1) No real scope, Jet Blue, and other Pilot groups will get even more of our future jobs & routes...

2) No real pay increases, LBO Pay proposal does not even keep up with inflation...

3) High probability, we are stuck with this LBO Pay Scale, and No Scope for the next 10 years...this is Not Good!

4) More AA Pilots loosing jobs, as more Pilot Jobs outsourcing happens...

5) We don't have all the details, for this LBO, -only "Bullet Points"

6) APA misled the Pilots in '03 to accept, the current POS contract, how can anyone trust what they say, -now- when, there are no real details, on this "LBO".

7) 13.5% equity state, is a "Big Maybe" that can easily be watered down, later on...remember Who is offering it...any real credibility, there??

Same ones I post in my vote no thread;

- 6yr contract (meaning 10)
- 319 pay rates
- Eliminate night pay
- No increase in Int pay
- Per diem 2.00/2.20
- No increase in avg day with more hrs/month, offered 5+20 in Nov (no cost item)
- Reserve system, very fuzzy wording
- New TTS TBD, yea right, wonder how that will work out
- Sick
-- 60 hrs short term, that's all you get this year
-- Sick verification
- Vacation max 35 daays, just say hours!
- Airport Hotels, enjoy that
- Pension changes, may term the A at any time, remember UAL
- Scope
-- 75% of narrow body fleet
-- Unrestricted domestic code share
-- Modify how to count, new math
- Disability, max to 24 months?
- IOD, don't get hurt at work, you will use your own sick hrs
- Average Comparable Pay Rate at yr 3, yea right

Reason #1:
Same management team... Lying thieves.

Reason #2
Six year AGREEMENT( translates to 10)

Reason #3
Forming another "B"scale pay scale

Reason #4
Would like to be able to look at myself in the mirror

another poster wrote:

"Give it to the Judge."

I will not be party to selling out my future to alleviate the fear of the unknown.
To give into this imposed pressure is a failure of character.
We must resist to the limit of our ability to do so.

House payment, Kids education, Promised equity stake, etc , are just not a good enough reason to give up on my self worth and standing as a professional.

My career will go on, just not as a pilot for American Airlines, I am Ok with that.

21 years with high quality aviators, how can I regret that?

Therefore, my realities are fight to fix this place or leave.

I will not lie down with dogs.

10. This management team received an overwhelming vote of NO CONFIDENCE from us. SCOPE.
9. I read the first 100 pages of the TA and the word "eliminate" was used 35 times, effectively destroying decades of collective bargaining by ourselves and our predecessors. SCOPE.
8. The scheduling and PBS agreements give the company excessive amounts of control with little ability of the individual pilot to refuse reassignment, rescheduling, or changes to trips. SCOPE.
7. Distance learning is paid at 1/3 of base rate. SCOPE.
6. Hotels at complete discretion of company with airport hotels preferred. SCOPE.
5. SWA is not included in the Industry Comparable Pay Rates Proposal. SCOPE.
4. Reserves will still will have moveable DFP's. SCOPE.
3. 6 Year Contract. SCOPE.
2. Paragraph 1. pages 29 and 30, under Settlement Consideration has enough holes to fly an Airbus 380 through it(Please see Tom Westbrook's analysis on another thread). SCOPE.
1. No 1.5 or 2.0 pay for holiday flying in the first 100 pages or Section 8. SCOPE.

Finally, I am one of those who voted "YES" in 2003, because I was scared and felt like my back was against the wall. Guess what, my back is still against the wall, but this is it for me at 54.5. I am gonna press to test and see what happens. Care to join me in a run up this river and see if we can stir up some **** with the goonies that managed this place into bankruptcy.

Its not personal, its just business,
No Wait, it is personal, they made it personal.

In addition to the lies we hear that American Eagle is profitable (not true)
Here are more lies:

10. "Weeks Not Months"
9. "We need RJs to grow the mainline"
8. "7300 floor"
7. "Two Great Airlines, One Great Future"
6. "Shared Sacrifice"
5. "Bricks in our backpack"
4. "You don't understand executive compensation"
3. "Cannon shot"
2. "Things change"
1. "Win Together Pull Together"

more reasons to vote NO:

from a 600 seniority Capt at AA

You are definitely on the right track.
(Sorry for stealing your list format)
Just talking out loud so to speak with a review of where we are at:
1) AMR is doing very well this summer.
2) Their cash balance is growing.
3) Horton's plan was to exit in about a year, but his labor strife requires an extension to Dec.
4) Legacy carrier pilot groups have a history of consensual agreements.
5) This Judge does not want to be the first to dictate to us the terms.
6) AMR just wants a majority of APA to believe that they have made their LBFO and it must become their contract.
7) AMR doesn't care for Parker pre-empting their plans.
8) The CLA with US sunsets if AMR exits bankruptcy, and they may be able to do so, if we give them what they want and they issue a POR simultaneous with the end of the extension.
9) The extension gives us time to stick it in their face and renegotiate, since abrogation would be unprecedented.
10) I cannot be sold a rotten bill of goods by Jeff Brundage when my peers at other airlines are going to leave me in the dust.
11) There are no guarantees in life.
Voting NO for the profession.
I will not subsidize a failing enterprise that does not respectfully appreciate my contributions.
It's time.

"Uncertainty and more pain". Hmmmm............. :cool: Well, it appears desperation may be setting in, in addition to coming down to the final wire. What happens then is usually a combination of threats and intimidation, perhaps with the inference of a lollipop, if one is good.

It seems this communique has all those ingredients.

But yes, I think those two descriptive terms would be an accurate assessment of the immeadiate future at AA should the TA fail. I would assume those people know that would likely apply to ALL parties and not just the pilots. Once the 1113 is under way, no one knows how AA will function, but one would have to be a fool to think it will operate totally unaffected considering no airline of this size has ever attempted to operate itself in that manner after an airline's management initiates that level of attack on its pilots. What the consequences of that is, is anyone's guess, but it will be interesting to see if the outside investors will also embrace "uncertainty" in AMR's stand alone plan under those circumstances considering it might be a day-to-day situation stability-wise as most of those within it will be existing under unprecidented "pain" as this threatening letter implies.

The questions and uncertainties mentioned above notwithstanding, I will NOT succomb to threats, intimidation and tyranny in this situation. My vote stays NO. Additionally, I couldn't care less on what terms they restart negotiations, 1113 or otherwise. Unless another agreement materializes that satisfactorily meets the draconian deficiencies of this TA, it's more wasted time with the same result from me..........NO. One final observation is the interesting fact the author assumes the judge is certain to rule for the tyrants. It is likely, but not an absolute certainty and quite presumptuous, although understood considering it appears the obvious point of the communique is to terrorize the oppressed.

Don't cave in!

What a or AA Company Tool....:mad:

How much in PUP Buck Bonus cash has this fool cashed in on...

Vote "Yes" if you want to work on your knee's in front of this clown the next 10+ years....Vote "Yes" if for the next 10+ years you want to make 1000's less then Delta or UAL....While you can only wish you voted NO:(

Hang tough APA, every pilot regardless of their employer is hoping you hang tough. Concessions only benefit management .

Vote no for yourselves and your families but vote no for future American pilots too please!!!!! Good luck

Abrogation is the nuclear option and any management stooge or investor has to realize the damage that would ensue.....especially the investor. Imagine the ramifications of sticking this enormous turd down labor's throat. Sick calls through the roof. Unpredictable mass retirements. Slow taxis, late take-offs and horrendous customer service. I'm not there but I fully support and respect all the "no" voters. Hold the line!

By voting NO, one extremely important thing happens... there's no contract with labor. For post BK cash dealings and all of those management maneuverings "we poor pilots simply cannot understand because we aren't management, just glorified bus drivers," become exceedingly difficult.

For AMR to "move forward", labor needs to toe the line, heel like good dogs. Without contracts, AMR is radioactive. The secret is, they are desperate for a contract, and obviously one which will help their bonus bottom line.

From what little I learned today, the United TA sounds decent, if not better than decent. The airlines are making money. Management wants to lock in a 10 year contract with pilots and other union groups to make their profits and bonuses that much more spectacular. Do not be fooled... they view us as a commodity, but they fail to realize that, unlike 50 tons of pork bellies, they cannot simply buy more pork bellies overnight to replace those on the property.

I genuinely believe WE, the unions, are currently in a position of greater power. Let's exercise that power. Vote NO, take the pain and angst which will last a fraction of 6 years, and make AA great once again. And by extension, each individual victory for pilots throughout the US airline biz will elevate the others.

Not to mention AMR will most likely need financing for BK exit, plane orders, merger plans, etc and it wont be easy getting financing without labor agreements.

The above has been AA's norm for years, especially the last part.

Hang tough, AA'ers.

Where's Traumahawk these days? :rolleyes:

UAL pilots were in your shoes about 10 years ago. They chose to "participate" in the restructuring (i.e. concessionary contract). With their "yes" vote, they chose to cancel their pensions. The end result might be the same, but their pensions weren't taken from them by a BK judge's ruling. They voted them away.

Looking back on it, they ended up stuck with that contract for the next 10 (and counting for now) years. I don't think they spent those 10 years any better off as a result of their "participation".

Stay strong and make these jerks take anything they get from you by prying it out of your clenched fist.

Pilots want to be in control, I get it. However, this isn't the time to fool yourselves into believing that your participation in your own screw job will somehow make it less painful. It's going to suck - no doubt. In my opinion, getting things back that were wrongfully taken from you might be easier than trying to re-acquire things you gave away.

Good luck to you all from a former legacy BK participant and current AAdvantage Exec Platinum.

I was thinking the same thing?

If this TA fails it will again demonstrate to all that AMR is unable to work with their labor groups and this does not benefit the creditors moving forward. When one considers the pilots got a deal with Parker in just 10 days and AMR cannot force or threaten their way forward, this will likely be a MAJOR obstacle to producing the best plan for AA's future and is likely to improve Parker's chances of stripping the ball from Horton. I've heard that the current deal with Parker may be improved and that would only make AMR even more questionable, especially if not just the pilots reject their TA's.

Sure is getting interesting in the home stretch.

I hope the "militant" APA votes NO ... it would be sad if they voted YES for this POS TA. We have the upper hand, not these scumbags in management.

Hi my American brothers and sisters. I am a twice fookloughed United guy. I have to agree with many of your assessments. Don't sign on for this crap. Make them take it from you via the bankruptcy process. Otherwise, it will be the same thing that happened to us. We gave and gave, hoping to stave off BK. But you know what happened. We BK'ed anyway after 2 concessions. In effect, all we did was give management a lower bar for them to knock us down from in BK.

Good luck. Sincerely hope you guys come out of this better than we did. Nobody should have to go through what we did (a lot of it, we did to ourselves).

-TJ

This just in!!!!! Holly Hegeman of Plane Business Banter says American Airlines Pilots should all vote YES to managments last best final offer.

So that's it. I mean she would know right?

She was a receptionist or a speech writer for Bob Crandall. She left AMR in 1997.

Seriously, a receptionist knows more about what work rules for an airline pilot should be than say an, airline pilot?

So my 23.5% pay cut and work rules given up in 2003 to save AA from bankruptcy wasn't enough. So now Ms Hegeman beleives I should give up scope to American Eagle and unlimited code share to Jet Blue, Alaska and Hawaiian Air.

I VOTED NO!!!

I SUGGEST ALL PILOTS BOYCOTT PLANE BUSINESS BANTER

Can the AA pilots just walk/strike if the 1113 items are issued? Why cant they just walk and shut things down until MGT sits down seriously?

F*#k MGT, HORTON, OBAMA, THE JUDGE and anyone else who gets in the way.

Its time for some REAL radical union action. NO MORE $$ FOR MGT, SHUT IT DOWN. AA MGT only will respond to you if it hurts the bottom line. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

It takes GUTS to get what you want in life. Its time to get up from under the circumstances, and rise up to FIGHT for what you believe.

VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HELL NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually it does not give scope relief for american eagle, it gives scope relief for any feeder aa decides to contract out to.

Sir guys like you are blind and don't see that AMR has the least amount of "regional feed" between the legacies... Your problem sir is not Eagle, look at JetBlue, Alaska and others... That is where your flying has gone! When you guys quit trying to blame Eagle for everything while management gives it away to others you might stand a chance. I work at Eagle and thank you for voting no on this TA.

I am sure it is posted somewhere but when does the vote close?

Pilots are very easily manipulated as a group. This thing will probably pass 60-40, and the American pilots will be the lowest paid pilots for years. It is what it is. Message boards are usually a select group of individuals.

There is Zero and I mean Zero reasons for anyone to Vote YES for that POS...

You are just screwing yourselves by voting Yes..

Vote NO and wait and see UAL's agreement first before you hand away all your scope to Code shares and Eagle...

Tell your Scumbag management where they can stick their LBFO.:eek:

Fly as Safe as you Can......

Let's this AA Pilots opinon of the LBFO.....:eek:


Life At American Airlines.wmv - YouTube

I flew at a commuter for 9 years. I do not blame Eagle. I'm all for Eagle rolled into AA. They (management) will not go for it.
Have you seen the LBFO? I don't think you've seen the scope and looked at the numbers.
Ownership and registration for every Eagle Jet was transfered to AA on/between Aug 2011 through Oct 12th 2011. $2.5 Billion of debt was tranferred from Eagle to AA. The plan on the Eagle spinoff was Eagle would pay a nominal fee monthly to AA for the use of the < 50 seat jets in order to give Eagle a chance to be competitive.
The plan is to trade all of your (oops, I mean AA's) < 50 seat jets in to Embraer for E-170's (69 seats) and E-175's (80 seats minus 1) 79 seaters.
We owned all flying above 50 seats must be performed by the pilots of APA.
So unless Eagle is rolled into AA, then Eagle is my problem.

My respect to all pilots of American Eagle.

Any inside on voting numbers for this TA tomorrow? Could get interesting this week.

That's not what happened at all.

We went into BK, and then took two concessionary deals.

We never took a pay cut before the BK process.

I got no inside numbers. I've spoken with a lot of NO voters. But then Holly Hegeman writes an article saying we NO voters are uniformed, we are emotional. She says to vote YES.
There you have it, she is Madame Cleo. Did she tell the United guys how to vote? The Delta pilots?

Holly Hegeman was a receptionist, personal assistant coffee getter for Bob Crandall. I'm sure she still has a lot of contacts at Centerport.

But the day she gets her ATP in a 757 is the day I listen to her opinion on anything directly related to my career contract, work rules and pay!

Go write a Murphy Brown episode.

I VOTED NO TO THE AA TA
I GAVE IN 2003
7576FO

We actually did vote for a pre-BK pay cut. It was called the Economic Recovery Plan (ERP). We voted ERP 1 down, then passed ERP 2. When the ATSB loan guarantee was denied, UAL filed for CH 11. I can't remember if the ERP pay cut was implemented before C2003 was ratified with a 30% haircut.

See: ALPA News Release

and: ALPA News Release

Makes me want to puke thinking about those days.

I worked for UAL for 13 years until I took a voluntary furlough 4 years ago. I watched USAIR, UAL, and then Delta management execute exactly the same game-plan that is being played against American now.

Please educate yourselves on section 1113 of the bankruptcy code. It was put in place to protect employees from companies that used to declare bankruptcy for the sole purpose of abrogating labor contracts. For some reason the pilot unions' view it as a free ride for the company. It is exactly the opposite. It is an additional bankruptcy protection for you labor agreement.

Section 1113 does allow the judge to abrogate labor agreements, and impose new terms, FOR THE TERM OF BANKRUPTCY ALONE. AND THE JUDGE WILL ONLY DO THIS ONE TIME. To do this, the company has to show that all of other creditors have also taken a similar "haircut".

What happened to the rest of us? The company came to us with a "term sheet". Same exact words as your management. They threatened us that if we didn't come to a consensual agreement, they would have the judge impose their "term sheet". In fact, they can request it, but the judge might not say yes, and might impose less onerous terms, in line with the rest of the creditors. AND THE JUDGE WILL ONLY DO THIS ONE TIME, AND NOT FOR 6 YEARS.

So USAIR, UAL, and DELTA pilots caved. Then, a year later, they said they need more concessions, and if we didn't agree they would "1113" it, but if we agreed we could keep our pensions. So again, we caved in. A year later they said that if we didn't voluntarily terminate our pensions, the company would not survive. Guess what, we caved. Again.

If the judge does it, he will only do it once. If we would have done this, we would have taken a 30% pay cut, and possibly retained out pensions. Possibly. In the end, we took a 40-45% cut in basic pay, lost so many work rules and benefits that it is actually more like a 60% plus cut in pay. We furloughed over 25% of the pilots, and now fly the same number of flights with 2/3 the number of pilots we had pre-bankruptcy due to lost work rules. And we voluntarily gave up our pensions.

I would highly recommend you vote no, and let the judge make the decision. He will only do it once, and by law, he will look at the haircut the other creditors have taken, and make sure that your cuts are in line with theirs. That is Section 1113 of the bankuptcy code. When you come out of bankruptcy you can start your post bankruptcy negotiations.

Or, you can go down the same path as we did. USAIR, UAL, and Delta.

BTW, if you volunteer for this contract, it is a "freebee". The company can then threaten you again will 1113, and this first round of cuts won't count. You volunteered.

I would let the judge do it.

IMHO

Great post, plus it seems that if AA guys vote this down,then the LBFO will be what the judge imposes.

Actually the TA has language preventing AMR from double-dipping back for another 1113 unless there is a major financial change necessitating that. I doubt Lane would give them a free reign on that definition unless they were truly on the brink of liquidation.

That being said, this crap should definitely be voted down and I hope it is.

Possible, but more likely just a straight abrogation leaving AMR to impose what they will. AA will then just muddle along spinning it's wheels while Horton tries to convince the outside world his POR will work with blanket uncertainty as to AA's future costs and stability.

I think the creditors will then either pressure Horton to get a deal they can quantify and compare against anything Parker can do or then end exclusivity and then Horton is on the ropes. Let's face it, Parker would have quantifiable labor costs across the board for all labor groups still heads and tails cheaper than UAL or Delta (obtained in 10 days of negotiating to boot) and Horton will have little to show to appease lenders, creditors and investors. Yes, he can wave even cheaper pilot costs then the U CLA, but considering the negatives of instability and the possibility those costs could rise to near that of UAL or Delta, I think that won't be something they'll want to touch.

If you were one of the 3 above and were risk averse, where would you bet all your eggs ?