Bond holders want their money, NOW!
09-20-2012, 07:21 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 243
Bond holders want their money, NOW!
09-26-2012, 11:21 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: B777 x2 furloughed from United
Posts: 180
If someone owed me $450m I'd want to make sure I got paid too. I certainly wouldn't trust any company that had filed for bankruptcy protection so they could stiff me. I'd grab anything I could while I could.
09-28-2012, 03:07 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: AB 320 Captain
Posts: 355
The following is a business perspective of the struggle. As pilots we see it as protecting our profession. This is reality from creditors viewpoint.
There is no DIP in this bankruptcy case. AA has plenty of cash. But they do owe 'lot' of money to creditors, bond holders etc. So the Unsecured creditors committee (UCC) is running the show. The less money the employee's mange to get the more money creditors will get. They hold 4 A's. The losers are always the employees but for some reason every new bankruptcy case, the work groups seem to forget how this nasty mess they call bankruptcy works. Emotions are high and 'rational' is thrown out the window. Each work group seems to think the bad stuff is only happening to them . Every major airline has filed bankruptcy and every employee at every company has had the very same 'benefits' reduced. Now some carriers have reaped the benefits of lower costs and some work groups are being rewarded. Problem is AA's employees watched all these airlines suffer thru the same fate but now AAers think it doesn't apply to them. The sad truth is it does. Its a nasty business. Thats why they call it bankruptcy. Its a no win. Some of the more vocal haters just need to deal with it and accept the fact that this is the way it is. If the haters aren't careful, the creditors could throw their hands up and say Chapter 7 and sell off assets to get their money. Its that simple.
There is no DIP in this bankruptcy case. AA has plenty of cash. But they do owe 'lot' of money to creditors, bond holders etc. So the Unsecured creditors committee (UCC) is running the show. The less money the employee's mange to get the more money creditors will get. They hold 4 A's. The losers are always the employees but for some reason every new bankruptcy case, the work groups seem to forget how this nasty mess they call bankruptcy works. Emotions are high and 'rational' is thrown out the window. Each work group seems to think the bad stuff is only happening to them . Every major airline has filed bankruptcy and every employee at every company has had the very same 'benefits' reduced. Now some carriers have reaped the benefits of lower costs and some work groups are being rewarded. Problem is AA's employees watched all these airlines suffer thru the same fate but now AAers think it doesn't apply to them. The sad truth is it does. Its a nasty business. Thats why they call it bankruptcy. Its a no win. Some of the more vocal haters just need to deal with it and accept the fact that this is the way it is. If the haters aren't careful, the creditors could throw their hands up and say Chapter 7 and sell off assets to get their money. Its that simple.
09-28-2012, 03:31 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 114
Dude get a pair....
You've been listening to ALPA too much....
If ALPA was running the show over at AMR they would have caved over long ago like a bunch of Weinee's.....
Look what a joke UAL is right now..
Someone need's to let these Bain Capital types know We have had enough pound sand....
You've been listening to ALPA too much....
If ALPA was running the show over at AMR they would have caved over long ago like a bunch of Weinee's.....
Look what a joke UAL is right now..
Someone need's to let these Bain Capital types know We have had enough pound sand....
09-28-2012, 08:01 AM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by CaptainBigWood
The following is a business perspective of the struggle. As pilots we see it as protecting our profession. This is reality from creditors viewpoint.
There is no DIP in this bankruptcy case. AA has plenty of cash. But they do owe 'lot' of money to creditors, bond holders etc. So the Unsecured creditors committee (UCC) is running the show. The less money the employee's mange to get the more money creditors will get. They hold 4 A's. The losers are always the employees but for some reason every new bankruptcy case, the work groups seem to forget how this nasty mess they call bankruptcy works. Emotions are high and 'rational' is thrown out the window. Each work group seems to think the bad stuff is only happening to them . Every major airline has filed bankruptcy and every employee at every company has had the very same 'benefits' reduced. Now some carriers have reaped the benefits of lower costs and some work groups are being rewarded. Problem is AA's employees watched all these airlines suffer thru the same fate but now AAers think it doesn't apply to them. The sad truth is it does. Its a nasty business. Thats why they call it bankruptcy. Its a no win. Some of the more vocal haters just need to deal with it and accept the fact that this is the way it is. If the haters aren't careful, the creditors could throw their hands up and say Chapter 7 and sell off assets to get their money. Its that simple.
There is no DIP in this bankruptcy case. AA has plenty of cash. But they do owe 'lot' of money to creditors, bond holders etc. So the Unsecured creditors committee (UCC) is running the show. The less money the employee's mange to get the more money creditors will get. They hold 4 A's. The losers are always the employees but for some reason every new bankruptcy case, the work groups seem to forget how this nasty mess they call bankruptcy works. Emotions are high and 'rational' is thrown out the window. Each work group seems to think the bad stuff is only happening to them . Every major airline has filed bankruptcy and every employee at every company has had the very same 'benefits' reduced. Now some carriers have reaped the benefits of lower costs and some work groups are being rewarded. Problem is AA's employees watched all these airlines suffer thru the same fate but now AAers think it doesn't apply to them. The sad truth is it does. Its a nasty business. Thats why they call it bankruptcy. Its a no win. Some of the more vocal haters just need to deal with it and accept the fact that this is the way it is. If the haters aren't careful, the creditors could throw their hands up and say Chapter 7 and sell off assets to get their money. Its that simple.
Now, the claim is that AA cannot compete unless its labor costs are substantially below that of its competitors (a purpose Chapter 11 is not intended to be used for)........excessily below, actually. Of course the game is unfair and quite frankly corrupt, but at some point you push the envelope as far as it will go. AMR has pushed its pilots beyond that and they have little interest in willingly accepting that.
Force it on us they may, but willing accept it, absolutely not. At this point, AA pilots really have little left to lose and have determined their best hope and the ONLY hope for the future is one with others at the helm. As such, most of us have determined it's in our interest to kick the can as long as possible until that happens. IMO, we can go back to the normal operation we are and let rapid post BK attrition become our future negotiating leverage. If the UCC wants to move ahead with a stand alone plan, that's their choice, but if I were in that camp, I'd go with full value and payment on BK exit and move clear. Those who expect a lucrative long-term investment to pay off will get hosed unless they ante up big time down the road.
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