American, pilots union to restart talks
10-10-2012, 06:54 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by iama570
Best of luck to our fellow aviators at American. Hope their negotiations are fruitful and the pilots can move forward with strength and dignity.
All commercial airline pilots in the U.S. should be very supportive of the AA pilot group. What they are doing will affect every airline BK perspective moving forward. While the "associations" have touted pattern bargaining, over the last three decades management have been the only ones successfully applying this strategy. Due to the antiquated way pilots are represented and the tribal mentality that still exists among pilots, the only way pilots try to fight off managements attempts to destroy the profession, is one pilot group at a time. After more than 80 years the pilots still think it is "my airline versus their airline" instead of looking at what is best for the pilot profession. Somehow, and it still amazes me, the AA pilots seem to have suddenly grown a pair. While there are many reasons for this surprising turn of events, it still should be welcomed and supported by all pilots. Instead of harboring thoughts about how your particular airline could pick up or prosper at the failure of American Airlines, pilots at all airlines should be willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with the AA pilots as their failure will most certainly be a harbinger for the future of the profession.
Last edited by Night Hawk 6; 10-10-2012 at 06:57 AM. Reason: grammar
10-10-2012, 06:55 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 114
The APA should just mail their LBFO to AMR and let them take it or leave it.....
Otherwise just kick back and watch the blaze burn until USAir comes around to buy what's left........
A least Horton and his Boyz don't walk away with the cash.....
Otherwise just kick back and watch the blaze burn until USAir comes around to buy what's left........
A least Horton and his Boyz don't walk away with the cash.....
10-10-2012, 10:28 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by mvndc10
The APA should just mail their LBFO to AMR and let them take it or leave it.....
Otherwise just kick back and watch the blaze burn until USAir comes around to buy what's left........
A least Horton and his Boyz don't walk away with the cash.....
Otherwise just kick back and watch the blaze burn until USAir comes around to buy what's left........
A least Horton and his Boyz don't walk away with the cash.....
10-11-2012, 06:42 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by justjack
That's awful- but I agree. This is certainly how management has negotiated with pilots since 9/11. "You don't want to give up 20 plus years of retirement benefits, OK we shut down the company- and you get nothing. Take it or leave it."
Last edited by Night Hawk 6; 10-11-2012 at 06:44 AM. Reason: spelling
10-13-2012, 06:47 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
I'm an AA guy and have been unable to mine a single nugget of info from these "talks."
My new theory... Horton in his mahogany office, single-malt for all his buddies.
Horton: "Gentlemen, the operation is derailed; we are bleeding green. Something MUST be done."
Flunky: "Sir - we successfully kicked the can for a decade. Let's kick it some more, a couple more months, until the critical holiday travel season is passed."
Horton: "Superb idea flunky-boy. Here is a $5 million $$ cash bonus." <slides briefcase across table.>
I think we are being stalled, nothing more.
My new theory... Horton in his mahogany office, single-malt for all his buddies.
Horton: "Gentlemen, the operation is derailed; we are bleeding green. Something MUST be done."
Flunky: "Sir - we successfully kicked the can for a decade. Let's kick it some more, a couple more months, until the critical holiday travel season is passed."
Horton: "Superb idea flunky-boy. Here is a $5 million $$ cash bonus." <slides briefcase across table.>
I think we are being stalled, nothing more.
10-13-2012, 09:41 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Position: Looking for a right seat!!!
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Night Hawk 6
All commercial airline pilots in the U.S. should be very supportive of the AA pilot group. What they are doing will affect every airline BK perspective moving forward. While the "associations" have touted pattern bargaining, over the last three decades management have been the only ones successfully applying this strategy. Due to the antiquated way pilots are represented and the tribal mentality that still exists among pilots, the only way pilots try to fight off managements attempts to destroy the profession, is one pilot group at a time. After more than 80 years the pilots still think it is "my airline versus their airline" instead of looking at what is best for the pilot profession. Somehow, and it still amazes me, the AA pilots seem to have suddenly grown a pair. While there are many reasons for this surprising turn of events, it still should be welcomed and supported by all pilots. Instead of harboring thoughts about how your particular airline could pick up or prosper at the failure of American Airlines, pilots at all airlines should be willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with the AA pilots as their failure will most certainly be a harbinger for the future of the profession.
10-13-2012, 10:29 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by Night Hawk 6
There are times when you have to be willing to sacrifice for the sake of your future and that of the profession. No AA pilot walks away with nothing. The B-fund is owned by the pilots and will be distributed to the pilots, minus certain sales expenses, whenever the fund is terminated. APA will not defend the B-fund so it is gone regardless of what happens with the current negotiations. If the pilot is over 50 and has 10 plus years of service they will receive an annuity however small it may be, for the rest of their lives if the A-fund is terminated. Yielding to threats has not benefitted the AA pilot group or any pilot group over the last three decades but has served to embolden airline management and provided the fuel to fly the airline pilot profession into bus driver status. If pilots had a real union, one voice with one contract, this would all be irrelevant. Unfortunately most airline pilots do not have a clue how a real union would work, confuse a national union with a national seniority list, which is not a requirement for a national union, and most importantly, pilots are basically ignorant of their history. Do you pilots know when ALPA was formed? Do you know the who, what, and where of ALPA’s creation? Do pilots know when the RLA was written, for what it was written and when and for what is was last amended? If every pilot had at least this basic information they may not be so ready to accept and go along with the status quo. Every pilot needs to know their history because without this knowledge pilots will be content to continue to relive their past to their individual peril and the destruction of the profession.
10-13-2012, 01:55 PM
#18
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by Night Hawk 6
All commercial airline pilots in the U.S. should be very supportive of the AA pilot group. What they are doing will affect every airline BK perspective moving forward. While the "associations" have touted pattern bargaining, over the last three decades management have been the only ones successfully applying this strategy. Due to the antiquated way pilots are represented and the tribal mentality that still exists among pilots, the only way pilots try to fight off managements attempts to destroy the profession, is one pilot group at a time. After more than 80 years the pilots still think it is "my airline versus their airline" instead of looking at what is best for the pilot profession. Somehow, and it still amazes me, the AA pilots seem to have suddenly grown a pair. While there are many reasons for this surprising turn of events, it still should be welcomed and supported by all pilots. Instead of harboring thoughts about how your particular airline could pick up or prosper at the failure of American Airlines, pilots at all airlines should be willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with the AA pilots as their failure will most certainly be a harbinger for the future of the profession.
....and you used the word "harbinger."
10-15-2012, 04:55 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by ForeverFO
I think we are being stalled, nothing more.
Nothing solid yet, rumors from a Union insider who shall remain nameless.
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