American and pilots reach tentative pact
 

American Airlines and its pilots union reach tentative pact | LeveragedLoan.com

APA communications director Gregg Overman, “This afternoon the APA board of directors voted to present AMR management with a comprehensive counter-proposal. Management responded by agreeing to APA’s proposal.”

more...

American Airlines and its pilots union reach tentative pact | LeveragedLoan.com

I hope it good and i hope American stays independent!

Anyone have the details?

Curious as well. Good luck AA

An AA/ US merger would create an exceptional company and a force to be reckoned with. They would be on par with delta and united. Plus, consolidation is good. It forces airfares higher, leading to higher profits, which leads to more pay for us.

I wonder what happens to American Eagle?

It sounds like AA/US would spin AE off. Then they would compete and do the regional whipsaw dance :(

So does this increase or decrease the chances of a merger if APA gets a new contract/deal?

My guess is that if the TA is ratified, AA will exit bankruptcy as a stand alone carrier. However, Horton will now be seeking a US merger as the controlling entity, thus meeting resistance from Parker. Just my guess.

Early word is that APA caved on scope and pay. Skimpy raises, loads of 76-seaters and wide-open code sharing. If the early word is accurate, a new sales tour will begin to once again convince the pilots to lick a dogpoop lollipop.......only with frosting this time. :cool:

The company wanted 88 seats in the term sheet, and 79 in the TA. 76 is industry standard and a big win considering we're in BK.
go back to Eagle.

What are you smoking?

Que the Blame the Delta MEC in three, two, one ...

Industry standard where? At 2 airlines? US and DL?

Industry standard at WN and JB sure isn't outsourcing 76 seats. I'd say the fact that a pilot has been convinced that this is industry standard and a "big win" is a big loss for pilots everywhere.

This statement is disturbing. Industry standard? Companies who dont outsource 76 seats are:

SWA

AIRTRAN

UNITED

ALASKA

JETBLUE

SPIRIT

VA

What the hell are you basing "industry standard on"? US & Delta, thats all!

Glad you're not on the APA negotiating team.:mad:

Or are you...?:eek:

His statement is true. All the carriers your listing are low cost who aren't big enough to farm out regional flying. Who also do not hop the pond and are NOT legacy carriers. UNITED does farm out 76 seats too. Those carriers also will never reach the size of places like AA or DL.

So just because a carrier is big enough to outsource (whatever that means?) and flies internationally, it's pilots should accept a crap contract offer?

Yikes.

APAer's - please hold the line on scope.

Turbo props, and theyve been fighting tooth and nail to tighten it.

Negative. CAL scope 50 seats (74 seat props) / UAL scope 70 seats. Not a single 76 seater at UNITED....At least not yet.

Hmm, sounds kind of like Hawaiian, too. :rolleyes:

United, Alaska and Hawaiian are three legacies that don't outsource 76-seat feed.

With the exception of United, who is about to have 76 seat jets, None of those companies have world wide networks and none of companies fly to places like Duluth, MN or AVP.
I will agree that it would be nice for all flying to be done by mainline, but American would not be any different to the airlines that are similar to it.

You cannot compare Low Cost Carriers to the Legacy airlines. If you don't like the fact that american and united will scope out 76 seat jets, go work for Jet Blue, the option is there for you. Im not bashing all i am saying is that its pretty obvious that american united and delta will be pretty similar going forward, and pay and benefits will be way better than the low cost carriers in the future.

With the exception of United who soon will also be at 76 seats, those carriers don't have high yield business passengers in South Bend, Baton Rouge, Augusta, etc that need a quick connection to get on a 777 to London.

Pack dirt. Will the pay rates even be close to Delta/United ?

Will codesharing allow them to outsource half our fleet to bigger jets than E175's ?

Did they promise us an Industry Standard contract and not to agree to anything less ?

Believe me, I'd LOVE to wrong, but I'm hearing its lipstick on the pig we rejected.

You haven't been around this industry very long have you?

What is UA's limit?

On current UA scope WRT #seats...UAL=70 seat RJ's, CAL=50 seat RJ's (larger turboprops allowed at CAL)
Highly likely though that our "top secret Agreement in Principle" might allow 76 seats.

AA PILOTS! I know it's fun to talk about the smaller jets. Please don't forget the very large code sharing stuff (I know you guys won't as you are the butt kickers among us). We need your strong leadership!

Your friendly neighborhood CAL pilot. :)

And even a higher likelihood of my no vote.

Yeah, that silly texaspilot76. He must not have been around the last time the airline industry deregulated and took 30 years years to consolidate to a profitable environment...

Have you been paying attention to the past couple years? He's spot on

I think you're confused. Might be time to retire. ;)

But then again I'm confused a lot too so I guess it's time for me to retire.

Wait....what? :D

The recent steps in pay increases have been due to coming out of concessionary contracts from bankruptcy.

DAL scope re-capture, eliminated DCI jobs, seats and number of passengers traveling on DCI carriers while expanding mainline flying. 76 seaters were already on property. Some get hung up on the plane. It is all about seat numbers and number of DCI pilots flying Delta passengers and they all have been significantly reduced. Plus the language and metrics tied to all of the DCI have been improved. (ie no turbo props)

So where did DAL lower the bar?

Clean your house set the BAR higher than what DAL did and maybe there will be some constructive argument.

I'll have to research, but I don't think AS has protection against 76 seats. DAL/UAL have been around for 80 plus years. JetBlue has been around for less then 15 years. Their time will come. As their costs continue to rise, management will look to outsource. Since the pilots have no union, they won't be able to stop it. VA pays Regional wages, and also has no union. Spirit doesn't really have a route structure conducive to RJs. No hub and spoke makes it tough to support RJs. SWA scope has never been challenged. It's pretty easy to hold the line when no one attempts to move it.

United pilots will likely fail in holding on to less then 50/70 seats. There is simply zero leverage to do so. The best they can hope for is to limit airframes to 76 seats and a MGTOW of 86,000 lbs, then limit those airframes based on mainline flying. If mainline shrinks, so do the RJs.

Did I miss an email?
 

I have not received anything on this TA.

I just read it. I'm a NO vote again.

4/2/2 pay raises. No night pay, yes int'l override of $6 hr for CA and about $4 hr for FO
Pay protection and sequence protection...finally currently since the 1960's AA pilots have only had their last trip of the month pay protected, and only for mx cancels. And you must make attempt to fly in make-up for up to 8 hrs after your footprint
New pay protect you are obligated to fly footprint plus another day till 2pm

Still has out of base 24 off in 7. Also can be out of country so they can schedule reserves in excess of 20 days in a row. I personallly was on reserve for 15 days in a row last and this month. I had 3 trips out of the country and they used my time in Brazil as my 24 off in 7.

My understanding is with PBS at UAL/CAL and DAL you must have 24 off in base in 7 days. We do not will not have that. This is ugly.

Scope give to 76 seats. I could not tell if it was 50% or more of narrowbody fleet. As usual the contraact language I couldn't decifer total percentage.

Looks like the E-175 will be flying 8/72 seats adjusted to 76 seats.

I skimmed the whole document over a 1 hour period. I'll read it more thouroghly tomorrow.

20 pages on drug testing and they will begin testing for Xanax Alposomething

Very disappointed.

It says furlough protect for 90% but then why do I believe they might furlough 2,000 pilots when parking the S80 ???

I see very very little improvement in this over the last best final offer.

I'll be voting NO. I knew the 113 term sheet would be bad. I've been saving lots of money the last 2 years preparing for this fight.

Wish us well! Thanks
An American Airlines first officer
7576FO

Any aircraft between 76 seats and 110 seats would be in group 1 and CA pay would be 106 or 108 an hour.

Horizon Air pilots make $113 for the DHC-400 76 seats.

Most likley if we get E 190's at AA 11/88 seats they would pay $106-108 hr for CA. Jet Blue is much higher.

I realize the old addage get them on property and then negotiate higher pay later, but we'd be talking 10+ years to raise group 1 pay.

No disrespect intended to JB or QX pilots all great pilots.

7576FO can you post the part on scope?

Alprozolam (sp?) is the generic of xanax.