Questions from an outsider on US/AA merger
12-17-2012, 03:10 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by TQ Nola
I'm not sure what you got out of what I said; I'm an AA guy. Now that I think of it, it was probably 2001. Pre- 9/11 for sure. And I'm not saying any carrier corners the market on pilot boneheads. That would be boneheaded of me. That encounter has just stuck with me over the years as a textbook example of chicken-counting gone amok.
My apologizes. I saw the Denver and the comment and made the incorrect assumption that you were a UA pilot. As you can tell from my reaction I've heard a lot from some of them and it hit a nerve. US/UA never even got to the point of exchanging lists and it was very contentious.
There was a lot of chicken-counting and it burned a lot of guys that bought US stock, convinced the merger would happen.
12-17-2012, 03:30 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by cactusmike
4. Yes. Here is where it gets tricky. As R57 says, the union proposes the list. But USAPA has no single list of a combined pilot group to propose other than the Nicolau award. Their DOH list has not been made part of a joint contract. We are years away from a TA. Parker has accepted the Nic list, that was done years ago. But it, too, has never been put into a joint contract. We may face a 3 way, but that has its own legal challenges.
12-17-2012, 04:32 AM
#13
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by Jim718181
1. Does Usapa want a merger to go through?
2. If they do what list would they use as a starting point for the SLI?
3. If Usapa didn’t want the merger to go through would they have the ability to block it if the APA, UCC, and DP all want it?
4. Does DP have the authority to use the Nic list if Usapa is against it?
5. Could the west pilots block it if DP tries to negotiate a DOH list with the Usapa?
Thx
2. If they do what list would they use as a starting point for the SLI?
3. If Usapa didn’t want the merger to go through would they have the ability to block it if the APA, UCC, and DP all want it?
4. Does DP have the authority to use the Nic list if Usapa is against it?
5. Could the west pilots block it if DP tries to negotiate a DOH list with the Usapa?
Thx
1. Yes—they need it to go through.
2. I believe that USAPA will use a "blended" list of relative DOH with some weight towards seniority. If APA chooses to go this route they may do everything possible to water down an obvious DFR case by mixing in minimal Nicolai attributes.
3. USAPA cannot block this merger. USAPA leadership may focus on trying to assimilate themselves into APA.
4. The APA will dictate the SLI.
5. The West Pilot Class can only act reactively. They must wait for the merger to produce a CBA and the SLI must be put into place before their lawyers can file lawsuits against APA, US Airways etc.
More thoughts on Item 5:
This merger will mean that East/West will never get a CBA. Will the Nicolai even apply here? The merger will generate a three way CBA and Nicolai cannot into effect until a CBA is in place—West pilots have no seniority rights until then.
APA has every incentive to divest itself of the Nicolai award as this would punish APA and USAPA members equally.
Worst case scenario, APA may submit the SLI process to an arbitrator and rid itself of any liability.
12-17-2012, 07:51 AM
#15
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by R57 relay
Really? I had an AWA pilot do the exact same thing on the jumpseat from PHX to CLT years back. Did your guy ask where he could get his 747 manuals too? That seemed to really knock you guys for a loop. I had a UA pilot tell me that I could have never been hired at UA and would always be "acquired". Had another UA, CAPTAIN BY GOD, whine because I gave the freight guy that was there first the jumpseat. CAPTAIN MARV said he deserved it more. What does all of this tell us? There are tools at every airline.
Congrats on your contract and for CO guys, good luck on your SLI, as you will never be seen as worthy as the Marvin Mainliners. I think it is time for me to head on over to the UA/CO board and spread a little holiday cheer.
Congrats on your contract and for CO guys, good luck on your SLI, as you will never be seen as worthy as the Marvin Mainliners. I think it is time for me to head on over to the UA/CO board and spread a little holiday cheer.
12-17-2012, 09:33 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by tsquare
Any idea where the term "Marvin Mainliners" came from? I have a great story about a Western pilot and a confrontation in ORD once with a UAL FO, and he used that term. (It's a true story too.. I had it verified by an ORD ground controller a few years back, as well as the pilot in question.) Many of the old Western guys have used it. It is kind of like "Coon-ass"... nobody seems to know where it originated.
12-17-2012, 11:55 AM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by flybywire44
Hi Jim,
1. Yes—they need it to go through.
2. I believe that USAPA will use a "blended" list of relative DOH with some weight towards seniority. If APA chooses to go this route they may do everything possible to water down an obvious DFR case by mixing in minimal Nicolai attributes.
3. USAPA cannot block this merger. USAPA leadership may focus on trying to assimilate themselves into APA.
4. The APA will dictate the SLI.
5. The West Pilot Class can only act reactively. They must wait for the merger to produce a CBA and the SLI must be put into place before their lawyers can file lawsuits against APA, US Airways etc.
More thoughts on Item 5:
This merger will mean that East/West will never get a CBA. Will the Nicolai even apply here? The merger will generate a three way CBA and Nicolai cannot into effect until a CBA is in place—West pilots have no seniority rights until then.
APA has every incentive to divest itself of the Nicolai award as this would punish APA and USAPA members equally.
Worst case scenario, APA may submit the SLI process to an arbitrator and rid itself of any liability.
1. Yes—they need it to go through.
2. I believe that USAPA will use a "blended" list of relative DOH with some weight towards seniority. If APA chooses to go this route they may do everything possible to water down an obvious DFR case by mixing in minimal Nicolai attributes.
3. USAPA cannot block this merger. USAPA leadership may focus on trying to assimilate themselves into APA.
4. The APA will dictate the SLI.
5. The West Pilot Class can only act reactively. They must wait for the merger to produce a CBA and the SLI must be put into place before their lawyers can file lawsuits against APA, US Airways etc.
More thoughts on Item 5:
This merger will mean that East/West will never get a CBA. Will the Nicolai even apply here? The merger will generate a three way CBA and Nicolai cannot into effect until a CBA is in place—West pilots have no seniority rights until then.
APA has every incentive to divest itself of the Nicolai award as this would punish APA and USAPA members equally.
Worst case scenario, APA may submit the SLI process to an arbitrator and rid itself of any liability.
Of course, then I notice they can't even get something basic like the arbitrators name correct (repeatedly) and well..............it kind of shoots the credibility down and I'm left with the empty feeling I've read another marginal opinion of someone guessing just like everyone else.
12-17-2012, 02:20 PM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by CaptainBigWood
Oh Eaglefly, my deepest sympathy for your "empty feeling". I will spell Nicolau correctly and maybe you get feeling better. Merry Christmas
I knew there was hope.Happy New Year.
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